October 7th Hamas Attack - What doesn't add up.

[NedFlanders]

Who’s being murdered? Isn’t it just a bunch of method actors like Sandy Hook and 9/11 etc.?
Are promoting wild, and unfounded conspiracies really to be taken seriously? Instead of as a joke? Jokes aren’t the proper response to jokes?

I was wrong about Hunter laptop, and easily admit to it. I don’t remember much about WMD, but to the extent I believed it, I admit to being wrong. But it is a hallmark of the conspiratorial mindset, to actually dig in deeper when face with more evidence. They aren’t known for changing their mind and admitting wrong. So to take the non-conspiracy adherents to task for being in the wrong is sort of odd, given that they do accept new evidence easier than the conspiracy theorists.

But ridicule may not be the right response to the ridiculous.

It seems to me people get distracted and focus on the extreme instead of using discernment to look for facts and use righteous judgement. I mostly never heard of the things you bring up here and I used to be considered a conspiracy theorist…. I just never bothered spending time on the absurd, and to lump all people who don’t follow the main stream narrative into such a group is yes - ridiculous. Lots of false flags to distract people from truth and in this thread we find proof that they work to distract as intended…

I’m fascinated that you used to be a conspiracy theorist and never heard of these. That is great! I wish I hadn’t. I have heard, it feels like, every conspiracy theory under the sun. And all too often, and to my dismay, from people in our own churches. It seems to be gaining traction, from QAnon, to Flat Earth.

And it has become common enough, that it is causing people such as myself (and apparently Mike), to become weary of it.
These are not harmless. They cultivate a mindset of anti-government and anti-authority that is full of distrust and rebellion. And no, we don’t need to be pro-government as the alternative. But we are to honor the king, and obey governors. And when we “see” the government doing evil, it tends to give license to not honor or obey.

And we should not necessarily take the attitude of “believe what you want” in our church, because this does affect us. It doesn’t stay innocuous. It metastasizes.

Your concern about being distracted by things of the world, at the cost of the spiritual is completely shared by me. And I see conspiracies as doing that very thing in our churches.

Fair enough. Thanks for that. I’d say those that I fellowship with are more influenced by the main stream than conspiracy theories so yeah when wording comes up of differentiating Israel and Hamas or Russia and Ukraine it is too often implied a leaning to one side over seeing the kingdom of God that just makes my insides scream “let’s focus on the kingdom of God and be on truths side not any kingdom of this world.”

[barnhart]

... I have heard, it feels like, every conspiracy theory under the sun. And all too often, and to my dismay, from people in our own churches. It seems to be gaining traction, from QAnon, to Flat Earth.

And it has become common enough, that it is causing people such as myself (and apparently Mike), to become weary of it.
These are not harmless. They cultivate a mindset of anti-government and anti-authority that is full of distrust and rebellion. And no, we don’t need to be pro-government as the alternative. But we are to honor the king, and obey governors. And when we “see” the government doing evil, it tends to give license to not honor or obey.

And we should not necessarily take the attitude of “believe what you want” in our church, because this does affect us. It doesn’t stay innocuous. It metastasizes.

Your concern about being distracted by things of the world, at the cost of the spiritual is completely shared by me. And I see conspiracies as doing that very thing in our churches.

This post captures my experience as well.

[Jazman]

That is great! I wish I hadn’t. I have heard, it feels like, every conspiracy theory under the sun. And all too often, and to my dismay, from people in our own churches. It seems to be gaining traction, from QAnon, to Flat Earth.

And it has become common enough, that it is causing people such as myself (and apparently Mike), to become weary of it.
These are not harmless. They cultivate a mindset of anti-government and anti-authority that is full of distrust and rebellion. And no, we don’t need to be pro-government as the alternative. But we are to honor the king, and obey governors. And when we “see” the government doing evil, it tends to give license to not honor or obey.

And we should not necessarily take the attitude of “believe what you want” in our church, because this does affect us. It doesn’t stay innocuous. It metastasizes.

Your concern about being distracted by things of the world, at the cost of the spiritual is completely shared by me. And I see conspiracies as doing that very thing in our churches.

To use some big words, it's been my opinion of late, that our churches (CA to acculturated like mine) need some schooling in Biblical / moral/ethical epistemology... in other words a theology of epistemology that is more robust and useful than things like this, "My tribe said it -> truth" - or - "My interpretation says it -> truth" or "Everything's black & white and the more black & white we can finagle it, the better" - or - "The Bible has All the answers to life's questions" (on some basic/principle levels, yes the Bible has answers. It can provide the 'spirit' of answers)

I also see a fair amount of postmodern-like giving-up on "ever knowing, because it's too confusing" when it comes to messy situations, current events etc..., bordering on fatalism. If that's where you're at, that's a vacuum that can be filled with all kinds of problematic things. Just because there's too many media choices with various motives and various slip ups sometimes, doesn't mean you throw in the towel and give up on persistent investigation and seeking facts and realities. But I see Christians doing this, but because they're still human with a longing for stable ground to stand on, they open themselves up to anything that comforts and coddles instead of verified truth and faith with evidence.

RZehr you are right and it's going to become more challenging and church leadership needs to address it head on... Imo, if they don't add media / epistemological discernment to their tools of the trade (like Bible study/hermeneutics, family counseling, etc) then they are inviting disaster. (I suppose this has already been happening and you all could relate the stories...)

[joshuabgood]

Conspiracy theories are like mental pornagrpahy, says one of my friends. It gives a heady feeling of superiority to know that you understand something at a deeper truer level than all the dumb duped masses.

[JohnHurt]

Here is what Christ said about who is really behind all of the "Government Conspiracies":

Luke 4:(5) And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

(6) And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

(7) If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

(8) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

[JohnHurt]

So why did the "Hamas attack" happen now, in October of 2023?

Franklin Roosevelt, one of the "ultimate insiders" in government, said this:

In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.

The Hamas attack is a planned distraction from the war in Ukraine.

Russia has won in Ukraine. They have accomplished their objectives and have created a land bridge to the Crimea, and liberated the Donbass and Luhansk regions from the Ukrainian Nazi Azov battalions that were genociding ethnic Russians. Russia has won the war in Ukraine.

They won the same way they defeated Germany, by attrition and killing more Ukrainians than the Ukrainians could kill Russians. Russia has been shelling the Ukrainian forces in their trenches for over a year with very few Russian losses, and they have repulsed every Ukrainian offensive. There are no more men in Ukraine to be found to fight and die in the trenches from this shelling.

Foreign fighters for Ukraine - like Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s son - they have come home, because to anyone on the ground, the situation in Ukraine is hopeless. But they can't tell the American people this truth.

Sending Abrams tanks from the US, or fighter jets, or missile batteries to Ukraine - is pointless, because there are no Ukrainians to operate any of this equipment. But it makes the defense contractors happy, so we send it.

Ukraine lost, and the USA has to extract itself from Ukraine and "save face" at the same time. They will probably call a "cease fire" or something.

So Biden is now changing the overseas military allocation, with less military supplies going to Ukraine (a lost cause), and more going to Israel - to start a new war - where they control both sides.

And then there is Taiwan and China, with incidents in the South China Sea between China and the Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, and any US ship or plane that flies over this sea.

The Hamas "war" is a distraction from Ukraine and Taiwan, and a pretext for the destruction of Gaza. It is also a prelude to a world wide conflict.

Who would have thought, in 1939 when Hitler invaded Poland, that so many people would die in WWII. It feels like 1939 all over again.

If there was ever a winter where you need to prepare for a "grid down" scenario, this is it. We all need to have storable food, water, and a way to heat our homes without electricity.

Next year is the 2024 election, so whatever the Establishment must do to "make Biden popular" - like start a major war - it will most likely happen this winter.

Vladimir Putin has put all of his nuclear forces at a level of high readiness. He has a hypersonic glide missile that can defeat almost any attempt to shoot it down.

The people that run the US Government and have nearly got us into World War Three - they are absolutely nuts, or working for the devil - take your pick. I think the devil is behind all of this, and that prayer is our best defense.

If you ever thought about praying for our nation, that we should be delivered from this evil, this would be a good time.

[Soloist]

So why did the "Hamas attack" happen now, in October of 2023?

Franklin Roosevelt, one of the "ultimate insiders" in government, said this:

In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.

The Hamas attack is a planned distraction from the war in Ukraine.

Russia has won in Ukraine. They have accomplished their objectives and have created a land bridge to the Crimea, and liberated the Donbass and Luhansk regions from the Ukrainian Nazi Azov battalions that were genociding ethnic Russians. Russia has won the war in Ukraine.

They have not achieved their goals which is why their missiles are continuing to fall on Ukraine. We have people on the ground there and the situation isn’t what you are describing.

They won the same way they defeated Germany, by attrition and killing more Ukrainians than the Ukrainians could kill Russians. Russia has been shelling the Ukrainian forces in their trenches for over a year with very few Russian losses, and they have repulsed every Ukrainian offensive. There are no more men in Ukraine to be found to fight and die in the trenches from this shelling.

It is true that they have repulsed the Ukrainian offensive mostly but it’s not true that the Ukrainians are huddled in trenches dying. The Russians have dug in and are also receiving just as much if not more shelling.
There are still men in Ukraine although reading between the lines, they are having to extend the draft to more ages.

Foreign fighters for Ukraine - like Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s son - they have come home, because to anyone on the ground, the situation in Ukraine is hopeless. But they can't tell the American people this truth.

Hogwash. This is propaganda trying to convince America it’s a lost cause so we pull out our support.

Sending Abrams tanks from the US, or fighter jets, or missile batteries to Ukraine - is pointless, because there are no Ukrainians to operate any of this equipment. But it makes the defense contractors happy, so we send it.

Again this is propaganda.

Ukraine lost, and the USA has to extract itself from Ukraine and "save face" at the same time. They will probably call a "cease fire" or something.

The goal of Russia is to convince you and I that this is true.
Ukraine’s goal is to convince us it’s not a lost cause and to support them.
There is no way to back down from Ukraine support without serious political cost and destabilizing of NATO.

So Biden is now changing the overseas military allocation, with less military supplies going to Ukraine (a lost cause), and more going to Israel - to start a new war - where they control both sides.

I just read the proposal somewhere and he was still wanting to send like 60bil to Ukraine and 10 to Israel so I don’t see that as accurate.

And then there is Taiwan and China, with incidents in the South China Sea between China and the Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, and any US ship or plane that flies over this sea.

This is why we have multiple fleets with our best equipped one stationed there.

The Hamas "war" is a distraction from Ukraine and Taiwan, and a pretext for the destruction of Gaza. It is also a prelude to a world wide conflict.

Many little skirmishes have come and gone and while WW3 could happen, it’s more likely Ukraine was the starting ground and not Israel.

If there was ever a winter where you need to prepare for a "grid down" scenario, this is it. We all need to have storable food, water, and a way to heat our homes without electricity.

I don’t see this as somehow worse then any other year.

Next year is the 2024 election, so whatever the Establishment must do to "make Biden popular" - like start a major war - it will most likely happen this winter.

We basically already are in several “conflicts” the US hardly has ever not been in Military conflict somewhere.

Vladimir Putin has put all of his nuclear forces at a level of high readiness. He has a hypersonic glide missile that can defeat almost any attempt to shoot it down.

And how would you know this? Perhaps consider Russian news is bias and this is no different then China declaring they have carrier killers when in actuality, the effectiveness of these weapons have never been tested against any near peer adversary.

The people that run the US Government and have nearly got us into World War Three - they are absolutely nuts, or working for the devil - take your pick. I think the devil is behind all of this, and that prayer is our best defense.

Mat 24:6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8  All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

If you ever thought about praying for our nation, that we should be delivered from this evil, this would be a good time.

1Ti 2:1  I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2  For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

[JohnHurt]

They have not achieved their goals which is why their missiles are continuing to fall on Ukraine. We have people on the ground there and the situation isn’t what you are describing.

The front line positions between Ukraine and Russia have not changed. Russia has a land bridge to Crimea, and has liberated the Donbass and Luhansk regions, which is all that they promised to do. Don't take my word for it, take a look for yourself:

https://liveuamap.com/

Ukraine is not winning against the Russians because they are not advancing against the Russian front lines. The Ukrainian army has not be able to "liberate" any part of Ukraine that Russia has taken.

Vladimir Putin has put all of his nuclear forces at a level of high readiness. He has a hypersonic glide missile that can defeat almost any attempt to shoot it down.
And how would you know this? Perhaps consider Russian news is bias and this is no different then China declaring they have carrier killers when in actuality, the effectiveness of these weapons have never been tested against any near peer adversary.

You can read about how Russia has surpassed the USA in hypersonic missile technology for yourself in the Wall Street Journal:

https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-s ... d-936a3128

The USA is just now starting to test hypersonic technology:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/air-force-suc ... d=95076398

Also, Russia has more nuclear missiles than the USA, and Putin has rejected the Strategic Arms Limitation agreement to not build more nukes.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/ ... -us-a80294

But you won't find that in the Western Media.

The idea that Russia "right now" is refurbishing thousands of the old Soviet nukes, to get a 2 to 1 advantage in a nuclear first strike - is terrifying idea for all of us, and a clear indication that the USA has failed in dealing with Russia.

So any mention that Russia has rejected the START agreement is called "Russian Propaganda" in the West and ignored. But it is still true. And Russia still has more nukes than the USA.

I think all of us have been victims of "propaganda" at some time, here are some examples:

9-11
1. A jumbo jet flies into the Pentagon, yet there is no wreckage. No wings, fuselage, or tail section found inside, or outside the Pentagon. All they found was some sheet metal and a single jet turbine that was too small for a jumbo jet. The Pentagon has many cameras, yet they cannot provide a single image of the plane that hit the Pentagon.
2. A jumbo jet flies into the ground at Shanksville, PA, yet there is again, no wreckage. No tail section, no wings, no fuselage. Just a burned spot on the ground. A coroner was called and reported that there were not any bodies there to autopsy.
3. Two jets hit buildings in Manhattan, yet they somehow knock down 3 buildings - with just 2 jets. WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 all fell into their own footprint, like a controlled demolition would do. Supposedly, jet fuel, which is kerosene, can melt a steel girder in less than 45 minutes.

Now, if you believe that 9-11 was entirely made by Arab hijackers controlled by Bin Laden in a cave in Afghanistan, which required the USA to invade Iraq and Afghanistan to "find Bin Laden", then believing that we are winning in Ukraine and need to keep sending weapons there too makes perfect sense.

And of course, believing that Hamas "invaded Israel" with the "perfect optics" of Hamas using machine guns on paramotors to "gun down people at a concert" so that the USA can be justified in sending weapons to Israel to support a war in the Middle East - that also is perfectly logical.

But remember what FDR said: Nothing happens in Politics that was not planned.

Take care.

John

[Dan Z]

Speaking of missing evidence...this from a CNN article on the Hospiral blast site:

Marc Garlasco, the former defense intelligence analyst and UN war crimes investigator, says there are signs of a lack of evidence at the Al-Ahli Hospital site.

“When I investigate a site of a potential war crime the first thing I do is locate and identify parts of the weapon. The weapon tells you who did it and how. I’ve never seen such a lack of physical evidence for a weapon at a site. Ever. There’s always a piece of a bomb after the fact. In 20 years of investigating war crimes, this is the first time I haven’t seen any weapon remnants. And I’ve worked three wars in Gaza.

[Ernie]

If there was ever a winter where you need to prepare for a "grid down" scenario, this is it. We all need to have storable food, water, and a way to heat our homes without electricity.

I don’t see this as somehow worse then any other year.

Next year is the 2024 election, so whatever the Establishment must do to "make Biden popular" - like start a major war - it will most likely happen this winter.

We basically already are in several “conflicts” the US hardly has ever not been in Military conflict somewhere.

I've heard these JH's sort of predictions, ever since I can remember. None of them have ever come true.

I'm not saying these will not come true. But rather if they do, it will be the first ones to come true.