Howard Bean

[ken_sylvania]

Well none of us should listen to Paul or Peter… I mean after all Peter betrayed Jesus… and Paul well he was murdering us.

Would you want to use Paul's writings from the time before he was converted?

[Soloist]

Well none of us should listen to Paul or Peter… I mean after all Peter betrayed Jesus… and Paul well he was murdering us.

Would you want to use Paul's writings from the time before he was converted?

If I wanted advice on how to be a Jew maybe.

[steve-in-kville]

Somehow I figured out I’m not supposed to touch a girl’s rear end or chest by the time I was age 10 or so. This man achieved being a bishop, a schoolteacher, and an author, but claimed ignorance of knowing he shouldn’t touch female students in those places.

I'm with Josh. I didn't have any sisters but I knew pretty early on that touching a female's rear or sweater puppies was a no go. In fact touching a girl anywhere was kinda off limits. Wasn't part of my mindset, IIRC.

[I Timothy]

Somehow I figured out I’m not supposed to touch a girl’s rear end or chest by the time I was age 10 or so. This man achieved being a bishop, a schoolteacher, and an author, but claimed ignorance of knowing he shouldn’t touch female students in those places.

I'm with Josh. I didn't have any sisters but I knew pretty early on that touching a female's rear or sweater puppies was a no go. In fact touching a girl anywhere was kinda off limits. Wasn't part of my mindset, IIRC.

I am pretty sure that Howard Bean's own courtship book would find his admitted behavior to be abhorrent. If he believes you shouldn't be touching your girlfriend then you know better than touching students. I did find the following written by him published in the Sword and Trumpet, March 2006:

Courting couples can easily follow subChristian dating practices of present or previous couples. Practices like holding hands, sitting close, and engaging in physical intimacies are easily copied by peer couples. Also, the practice of dating at an early age (before late teens) is readily followed by subsequent teens at age 16. Young men, don’t rob the cradle. And be sure you are well away from the cradle yourself.

[MaxPC]

Somehow I figured out I’m not supposed to touch a girl’s rear end or chest by the time I was age 10 or so. This man achieved being a bishop, a schoolteacher, and an author, but claimed ignorance of knowing he shouldn’t touch female students in those places.

I'm with Josh. I didn't have any sisters but I knew pretty early on that touching a female's rear or sweater puppies was a no go. In fact touching a girl anywhere was kinda off limits. Wasn't part of my mindset, IIRC.

I am pretty sure that Howard Bean's own courtship book would find his admitted behavior to be abhorrent. If he believes you shouldn't be touching your girlfriend then you know better than touching students. I did find the following written by him published in the Sword and Trumpet, March 2006:

Courting couples can easily follow subChristian dating practices of present or previous couples. Practices like holding hands, sitting close, and engaging in physical intimacies are easily copied by peer couples. Also, the practice of dating at an early age (before late teens) is readily followed by subsequent teens at age 16. Young men, don’t rob the cradle. And be sure you are well away from the cradle yourself.

I most certainly agree.

[Josh]

Also, the practice of dating at an early age (before late teens) is readily followed by subsequent teens at age 16. Young men, don’t rob the cradle. And be sure you are well away from the cradle yourself.

This quote is just plain odd. What’s wrong with 14 or 15 year olds liking each other and wanting to see each other after church, at family deals etc.? Seems an odd thing to be advising against.

It seems healthy to me for a young person to start to like a other young person. Maybe they meet them in another state on a trip and an interest develops. Or perhaps they are in the same congregation.

Whilst in my church we don’t do “dating” we do have young people fall in love and want to get married. Often an interest develops at 14 or 15. The young people get motivated to get ready to live a grown up life. I have seen several young men buckle down and work hard, get good jobs, and save up to buy a house. Then they get married at 18 or 19 and launch their married life together. I think that’s all a good thing.

[Ken]

Also, the practice of dating at an early age (before late teens) is readily followed by subsequent teens at age 16. Young men, don’t rob the cradle. And be sure you are well away from the cradle yourself.

This quote is just plain odd. What’s wrong with 14 or 15 year olds liking each other and wanting to see each other after church, at family deals etc.? Seems an odd thing to be advising against.

It seems healthy to me for a young person to start to like a other young person. Maybe they meet them in another state on a trip and an interest develops. Or perhaps they are in the same congregation.

Whilst in my church we don’t do “dating” we do have young people fall in love and want to get married. Often an interest develops at 14 or 15. The young people get motivated to get ready to live a grown up life. I have seen several young men buckle down and work hard, get good jobs, and save up to buy a house. Then they get married at 18 or 19 and launch their married life together. I think that’s all a good thing.

I guess it depends on your definition of "dating" I've always viewed the term as meaning going on a 1:1 date alone with someone.

I've raised 3 daughters. Well, the youngest is 16 so not quite "raised" yet. None of my daughters have actually gone on dates with boys before maybe senior year of HS and even then, barely. And that was mostly just supervised stuff like having an official prom date who was actually just a friend and mostly to keep the ratios balanced for the photos and promenade because it was really just a group of friends all going together. Yeah, that was TX where prom was a huge deal. Here in WA they can't be bothered with it. If my youngest goes to prom at all, she and her friends will likely do it "ironically" by getting dresses at Good Will and wearing Converse high-tops and laughing at the kids who spent a ton of time and money for some lame HS event. And they likely won't bring dates but just meet friends there.

What my daughters actually do is things like get invited to go waterskiing on some friend's dad's boat with 6 other kids and the dad driving. Or go to Dairy Queen with 5 other friends after a basketball game. Or do something with a church youth group like work Saturday afternoon at a food bank. Or I take a group of them up skiing or snowboarding. Which I would call socializing but not dating. And it isn't because we have some hard rule about it. When they actually find some boy they like I think they spend more time talking to each other on the phone than going out on an actual date.

I think it is healthier for kids to socialize in groups. But then I don't actually want my daughters getting married at age 18.

I would also not talk about one 16 year old dating another 16 year old as "robbing the cradle". I mean, who is "robbing the cradle" here? Most 16 year old girls are more mature than most 16 year old guys. But an 18 year old senior "dating" a 15 year old freshman? Just no. That is not happening on my watch as either a parent or a teacher.

[Josh]

Perhaps he was referring to himself when he said “robbing the cradle”. Quite an odd way to say it.

Other Mennonites tend to hang out in groups or maybe occasionally have an ice cream shop date for a half hour (once a week). That is how they do dating. Of course a couple that likes each other will take chances to go to any youth activities, volunteering, etc. - I used to go to a kids’ Bible club that was almost comical how many couples got established there (of the volunteers, not the kids).

We don’t think there’s anything wrong with being married at age 18 and in fact most young people really, really don’t want to find themselves single at age 25 and age 30.

[Ken]

Perhaps he was referring to himself when he said “robbing the cradle”. Quite an odd way to say it.

Other Mennonites tend to hang out in groups or maybe occasionally have an ice cream shop date for a half hour (once a week). That is how they do dating. Of course a couple that likes each other will take chances to go to any youth activities, volunteering, etc. - I used to go to a kids’ Bible club that was almost comical how many couples got established there (of the volunteers, not the kids).

We don’t think there’s anything wrong with being married at age 18 and in fact most young people really, really don’t want to find themselves single at age 25 and age 30.

I still don't want my daughters marrying at age 18. In some parts of the world, age 25 isn't considered "over the hill"

[Josh]

Perhaps he was referring to himself when he said “robbing the cradle”. Quite an odd way to say it.

Other Mennonites tend to hang out in groups or maybe occasionally have an ice cream shop date for a half hour (once a week). That is how they do dating. Of course a couple that likes each other will take chances to go to any youth activities, volunteering, etc. - I used to go to a kids’ Bible club that was almost comical how many couples got established there (of the volunteers, not the kids).

We don’t think there’s anything wrong with being married at age 18 and in fact most young people really, really don’t want to find themselves single at age 25 and age 30.

I still don't want my daughters marrying at age 18. In some parts of the world, age 25 isn't considered "over the hill"

I don’t want my children fornicating, and it’s quite clear that God’s plan is for most young people to be married. We have a massive problem in America with out of wedlock pregnancy and fornication.

I’m not sure why someone would think being married at 18 is a bad thing. The Bible says that marriage is a blessing.