MennoNet.com

i've only read a little from the Sirach.
most recently:
https://biblia.com/bible/chasaot/Sir27.30-28.7

Sirach 27:30–28:7
27:30 Wrath and anger, these also are abominations, And a sinful man clingeth to them.

28:1 He that taketh vengeance shall find vengeance from the Lord,
And his sins (God) will surely keep (in memory.)

2 Forgive thy neighbour the injury (done to thee)
And then, when thou prayest, thy sins will be forgiven.

3 Man cherisheth anger against another;
And doth he seek healing from Gods?

4 On a man like himself he hath no mercy;
And doth he make supplication for his own sins?

5 He, being flesh, nourisheth wrath;
Who will make atonement for his sins?

6 Remember thy last end, and cease from enmity;
(Remember) corruption and death, and abide in the commandments.

7 Remember the commandments, and be not wroth with thy neighbour;
And (remember) the covenant of the Most High, and overlook ignorance.

I love the book of "The Wisdom of Sirach"- it is in my Orthodox Study Bible, which uses the Septuagint for the Old Testament- I don't know if you have read the prologue of this book temp but it is so interesting-
This is a great book of Wisdom- never heard of it until we bought the Orthodox Study Bible- thankful for it.

Menno Simons quotes from it in at least one of his booklets.

I like the quote. (I don't know if Temp wanted a discussion about whether the Sirach is part of the Bible or not, I will start a thread on that to avoid distracting from the quote.)

Neto wrote:Menno Simons quotes from it in at least one of his booklets.

literally, just now, this (link below) found its way to my news feed ..
not sure if more will come out about it; from different sources, sometimes more follows, sometimes not.

"Oldest Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered, translated"
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ ... =hootsuite

.. The biblical commentary, penned by the fourth century Italian bishop Fortunatianus of Aquileia, was originally rediscovered in 2012 by Dr. Lukas Dorfbauer, a researcher from the University of Salzburg ..

Neto wrote:Menno Simons quotes from it in at least one of his booklets.

i'm not sure i'll ever get over being a little shocked each time i'm reminded, Menno Simons, and, Martin Luther, began as Catholics.

in my head, i know it, but each time i'm reminded, it sinks in a bit more, and, a bit differently.

i'm sure my struggle is from my early life, wherein each denomination, each faith group, "lived" as a stand-alone faith, without connection to others. thinking to the contrary was not welcome.

as a child, i remember asking my mother, "ok, but, they use the Bible, and they use the Bible, and, they use the Bible?!" .. it was confusing. i felt generally dismissed for asking too many questions.
there was a lot of, "you should 'just know,' " thinking.

i felt less-than, because, i knew, i did NOT "just know!" (how did others just know?!)
sincerely, this was a big puzzle for me.

o.memories. what treasures.
i suppose i have made peace with being a bumbling fool.
i appreciate whatever bits of Light and wisdom i'm allowed on this temporal journey.

regarding the Sirach, from the little i've read ..
so far, it seems to interpret the NT, to "paint word pictures," or, illuminate, perhaps, rather than to either translate or expand (?) .. it's founded on scriptures, esp the NT.

the OP passage corresponds to
http://biblehub.com/matthew/18-35.htm

Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours.

Matthew 18:34
In his anger, his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

Mark 11:26
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

temporal1 wrote:regarding the Sirach, from the little i've read ..
so far, it seems to interpret the NT, to "paint word pictures," or, illuminate, perhaps, rather than to either translate or expand (?) .. it's founded on scriptures, esp the NT.

Sirach was written before the New Testament, and does not mention the New Testament. It was not part of the Hebrew Bible, and I don't think we had Hebrew manuscripts before the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered.

The Greek translation of the Old Testament is called the Septuagint, and it has some books not found in the Hebrew Bible, and also differs from the Hebrew Bible in some of the other books. Sirach is in the Septuagint. It is accepted as Scripture by Catholics, Orthodox, and most Oriental Orthodox, who regard it as part of their Old Testament.

But you're right, some of the same things said in the New Testament are also said in Sirach.

then, i've read, as the OT "foretells" the NT, so does the Sirach/Septuagint.
if so, that's helpful. i was not thinking of a time line. but, yes, that's important.

Neto wrote:Menno Simons quotes from it in at least one of his booklets.

In more than one.

temporal1 wrote:then, i've read, as the OT "foretells" the NT, so does the Sirach/Septuagint.
if so, that's helpful. i was not thinking of a time line. but, yes, that's important.

This was one of our three Scripture readings on Sunday. Sirach is a wonderful study in wisdom and I find it fruitful to cross reference it with Proverbs.

This particular reading really gives a wake-up call to those who love to coddle their pet grudges. I saw a few heads snap to attention during that reading on Sunday.