The Double-Minded Man

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MaxPC
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The Double-Minded Man

Post by MaxPC »

Was discussing James 1 with a friend and what a rich chapter on discipleship it is. It speaks of the double-minded man:
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7, 8 For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.
In addition to doubt, what are some other ways a man can be double-minded?
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
silentreader
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Re: The Double-Minded Man

Post by silentreader »

MaxPC wrote:Was discussing James 1 with a friend and what a rich chapter on discipleship it is. It speaks of the double-minded man:
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7, 8 For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.
In addition to doubt, what are some other ways a man can be double-minded?
"unstable in all his ways" is that correlative or extraneous to "doubt"?
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Bootstrap
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Re: The Double-Minded Man

Post by Bootstrap »

silentreader wrote:"unstable in all his ways" is that correlative or extraneous to "doubt"?
I think the two are talking about the same thing. Let's look at the text and work backwards.
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7, 8 For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.
  • For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man - a man who is unstable in all his ways - will receive anything from the Lord.
  • What person is that double minded man? The person who asks in doubt, like a wave of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind (circumstances and feelings, rather than the certainty of our trust in God)
  • Our certainty is in God, who gives to all generously, and without reproaching, who will certainly give us wisdom if we ask and trust him to provide it.
Of course, the first step is to recognize that all of us lack wisdom. Most of us are in denial about that. We are so, so confident in our own wisdom.
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MaxPC
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Re: The Double-Minded Man

Post by MaxPC »

silentreader wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Was discussing James 1 with a friend and what a rich chapter on discipleship it is. It speaks of the double-minded man:
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7, 8 For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.
In addition to doubt, what are some other ways a man can be double-minded?
"unstable in all his ways" is that correlative or extraneous to "doubt"?
SR, the query I have I mind relates to the behavioral manifestations of the double-minded man - a daily praxis if you will. What are some of the outward behaviors and attitudes that indicate a person who struggles with double mindedness?
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
silentreader
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Re: The Double-Minded Man

Post by silentreader »

MaxPC wrote:
silentreader wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Was discussing James 1 with a friend and what a rich chapter on discipleship it is. It speaks of the double-minded man:


In addition to doubt, what are some other ways a man can be double-minded?
"unstable in all his ways" is that correlative or extraneous to "doubt"?
SR, the query I have I mind relates to the behavioral manifestations of the double-minded man - a daily praxis if you will. What are some of the outward behaviors and attitudes that indicate a person who struggles with double mindedness?
If double-mindedness and doubt in God and an unstable way of life are all linked, then James 3:1-12
 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body. 3 If we put bits into the mouths of horses so that they obey us, we guide their whole bodies as well. 4 Look at the ships also: though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. 5 So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things.
How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life,[a] and set on fire by hell. 7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. 10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers,[c] these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? 12 Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.


and James 4
4 What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions[a] are at war within you? 2 You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. 4 You adulterous people![c] Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”? 6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.
11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers.[d] The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Boasting About Tomorrow
13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit”— 14 yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. 15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. 17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.


might be symptomatic?
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MaxPC
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Re: The Double-Minded Man

Post by MaxPC »

SR, this is a great start. Our conversation touched on arrogance and the James 4:13-17 verses nail it.

What about continuing in bad habits and behaviors (drinking, porn, etc)? The person continually says "I want to change" but does nothing to move toward change.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
silentreader
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Re: The Double-Minded Man

Post by silentreader »

MaxPC wrote:SR, this is a great start. Our conversation touched on arrogance and the James 4:13-17 verses nail it.

What about continuing in bad habits and behaviors (drinking, porn, etc)? The person continually says "I want to change" but does nothing to move toward change.
The Law and Sin
7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
The last part of Romans 7 comes to mind.
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silentreader
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Re: The Double-Minded Man

Post by silentreader »

MaxPC wrote:Was discussing James 1 with a friend and what a rich chapter on discipleship it is. It speaks of the double-minded man:
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7, 8 For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.
In addition to doubt, what are some other ways a man can be double-minded?
Perhaps another important question; What is the wisdom that is to be asked for and received, is it general or for a specific need?
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Re: The Double-Minded Man

Post by Bootstrap »

silentreader wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Was discussing James 1 with a friend and what a rich chapter on discipleship it is. It speaks of the double-minded man:
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7, 8 For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.
In addition to doubt, what are some other ways a man can be double-minded?
Perhaps another important question; What is the wisdom that is to be asked for and received, is it general or for a specific need?
I like bringing this back to James 1. If we want to talk about the same thing James means by double minded, he uses the phrase only here, and that's the best place to look for it. Many translations put a title like "testing of your faith" on this passage, it starts like this:
Testing of Your Faith

2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
So I think the context is trials of various kinds, and the passage mentions several. It talks about testing of faith that produces steadfastness - the opposite of being unstable or double minded. And it tells us where to look for that stability.
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
I think it would be a mistake to read this and assume that it is only meant for some other group of Christians that doesn't have the wisdom we have. When we face trials of many kinds, we desperately need wisdom, and our own wisdom is not enough. Our wisdom and our stability are based in God, who gives generously to all without reproach. If we doubt that God will do that, we have no stability, we are tossed back and forth by whatever hits us.
9 Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation, 10 and the rich in his humiliation, because like a flower of the grass he will pass away. 11 For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes. So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits.
Writing to those who face trials of many kinds, James is saying that lowliness is not to be feared and wealth is not our source of stability or boasting. Wealth fades away like grass in the heat. The things that the world puts its trust in are not our wisdom or security. If we pray to God for wisdom, we can trust that he will grant that prayer, but there is not a similar promise if we pray to God for riches or exaltation.

We can't have it both ways. We can't put our trust in God and also in riches and our own exaltation.
12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
This passage seems to refer to both testing (in the sense of persecution) and temptation (by our own desire). And it tells us that each of us have desires that tempt us. We need to own that, not blame God for it. And we need to stand steadfast against the temptations of our own desires.

Part of that is understanding the process - temptation is not sin, but it lures us and entices us, and if we nurse it along and give it a place to grow inside us, it conceives and gives birth to sin. We need to avoid feeding our temptation, flirting with it, giving it a chance to take root in us. At the same time, I think it's healthy not to feel guilty just for feeling tempted.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. 18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
If we don't want to be double-minded, we need to be single-minded, focusing on the Father of lights. If don't want to be unstable, we need to focus on the one with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Our temptations, our desires for wealth or exaltation, and our doubts can get in the way of that. Every good and perfect gift is from above, from the Father who is always watching out for us.

Double-mindedness looks at the waves and the temptations and the humiliation and worries that we might not be able to trust God to give us the wisdom that we need. And let's face it, every one of us can be double minded at times, we need to call each other on to single-minded trust in God.
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Re: The Double-Minded Man

Post by MaxPC »

I like the cross referencing with Romans. I've always found the Bible to be a perfect tapestry with the various books reflecting God's teaching.
silentreader wrote:
Perhaps another important question; What is the wisdom that is to be asked for and received, is it general or for a specific need?
Personally I see it as both: situationally specific as well as an overarching gift for directing one's life.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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