It is changing so fast that webmasters cannot keep up? So much for the eternal deposit of faith.MaxPC wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:24 amIt would be lovely to be able to presume that but unfortunately the reality is a bit different. At the USCCB level, the jobs are part-time in addition to the regular jobs held elsewhere. It is one of those conundrums of the internet that its potential is sometimes stunted by lack of time or personnel to make immediate changes. Then there are the hacksters: the Vatican website was hacked last year and quite a bit of information had to be inputted again. Interestingly, one of my colleagues said that it is rumoured that it was an attempt to sell anti-hacking services to the Vatican. Rumours being what they are, I would take that with the proverbial grain.
It may be old-fashioned but I always keep the latest revisions of reference books such as the Code of Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church on my shelves for when (not if but when) the internet has a breakdown rather like the recent AT&T outage in the past month or so.
Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
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Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
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Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
Hardly. Translations are updated and new footnotes for clarity are set but the Deposit of the Faith does not change in spite of the ambitions of certain German bishops. One of the translations recently had to be revised to a more detailed and accurate usage. Minor linguistic editing but editing nonetheless.Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:21 pmIt is changing so fast that webmasters cannot keep up? So much for the eternal deposit of faith.MaxPC wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:24 amIt would be lovely to be able to presume that but unfortunately the reality is a bit different. At the USCCB level, the jobs are part-time in addition to the regular jobs held elsewhere. It is one of those conundrums of the internet that its potential is sometimes stunted by lack of time or personnel to make immediate changes. Then there are the hacksters: the Vatican website was hacked last year and quite a bit of information had to be inputted again. Interestingly, one of my colleagues said that it is rumoured that it was an attempt to sell anti-hacking services to the Vatican. Rumours being what they are, I would take that with the proverbial grain.
It may be old-fashioned but I always keep the latest revisions of reference books such as the Code of Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church on my shelves for when (not if but when) the internet has a breakdown rather like the recent AT&T outage in the past month or so.
The point I am making is that there are no webmasters or only part-time webmasters in some dioceses and Catholic groups such as the USCCB. The USCCB has part-time communications people with other jobs. They do not have the resources of other groups. They are a collegial conference of Bishops who make decisions on internal matters including liturgical implementation and resource allocations. It had been suggested that all Bishop’s conferences simply link to the Vatican website but the hacksters put paid to that notion last year. It was decided by some dioceses to avoid putting all of one’s eggs into one proverbial website basket. Less efficient? Possibly. It does reinforce the concept that physical books cannot be hacked. It will always present challenges for a multi-continental Church.
Likewise Canon Law and the tribunals that implement them are designed to discern the application of the Deposit of the Faith to individual cases; similar to the Supreme Court of the US and its discernment of cases within the context of the US Constitution.
Apologies for the length of that answer, but that was important for context.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
So, it is whatever they say it is at any given moment?MaxPC wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 6:58 amHardly. Translations are updated and new footnotes for clarity are set but the Deposit of the Faith does not change in spite of the ambitions of certain German bishops. One of the translations recently had to be revised to a more detailed and accurate usage. Minor linguistic editing but editing nonetheless.Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:21 pmIt is changing so fast that webmasters cannot keep up? So much for the eternal deposit of faith.MaxPC wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:24 am
It would be lovely to be able to presume that but unfortunately the reality is a bit different. At the USCCB level, the jobs are part-time in addition to the regular jobs held elsewhere. It is one of those conundrums of the internet that its potential is sometimes stunted by lack of time or personnel to make immediate changes. Then there are the hacksters: the Vatican website was hacked last year and quite a bit of information had to be inputted again. Interestingly, one of my colleagues said that it is rumoured that it was an attempt to sell anti-hacking services to the Vatican. Rumours being what they are, I would take that with the proverbial grain.
It may be old-fashioned but I always keep the latest revisions of reference books such as the Code of Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church on my shelves for when (not if but when) the internet has a breakdown rather like the recent AT&T outage in the past month or so.
The point I am making is that there are no webmasters or only part-time webmasters in some dioceses and Catholic groups such as the USCCB. The USCCB has part-time communications people with other jobs. They do not have the resources of other groups. They are a collegial conference of Bishops who make decisions on internal matters including liturgical implementation and resource allocations. It had been suggested that all Bishop’s conferences simply link to the Vatican website but the hacksters put paid to that notion last year. It was decided by some dioceses to avoid putting all of one’s eggs into one proverbial website basket. Less efficient? Possibly. It does reinforce the concept that physical books cannot be hacked. It will always present challenges for a multi-continental Church.
Likewise Canon Law and the tribunals that implement them are designed to discern the application of the Deposit of the Faith to individual cases; similar to the Supreme Court of the US and its discernment of cases within the context of the US Constitution.
Apologies for the length of that answer, but that was important for context.
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Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
Incidentally one reason for Anabaptism was a desire to get rid of all these thick tomes of extra-biblical legislation and return to simply using the Bible as a foundation.
My church’s founding documents plus explanations plus statements of faith fit in a single book, and don’t require a vast (secret) library nor “canon lawyers”.
My church’s founding documents plus explanations plus statements of faith fit in a single book, and don’t require a vast (secret) library nor “canon lawyers”.
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Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
Not sure if that is how you are categorising improved translations. Would you say that about the various translations of the Bible?Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:24 amSo, it is whatever they say it is at any given moment?MaxPC wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 6:58 amHardly. Translations are updated and new footnotes for clarity are set but the Deposit of the Faith does not change in spite of the ambitions of certain German bishops. One of the translations recently had to be revised to a more detailed and accurate usage. Minor linguistic editing but editing nonetheless.Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:21 pm
It is changing so fast that webmasters cannot keep up? So much for the eternal deposit of faith.
The point I am making is that there are no webmasters or only part-time webmasters in some dioceses and Catholic groups such as the USCCB. The USCCB has part-time communications people with other jobs. They do not have the resources of other groups. They are a collegial conference of Bishops who make decisions on internal matters including liturgical implementation and resource allocations. It had been suggested that all Bishop’s conferences simply link to the Vatican website but the hacksters put paid to that notion last year. It was decided by some dioceses to avoid putting all of one’s eggs into one proverbial website basket. Less efficient? Possibly. It does reinforce the concept that physical books cannot be hacked. It will always present challenges for a multi-continental Church.
Likewise Canon Law and the tribunals that implement them are designed to discern the application of the Deposit of the Faith to individual cases; similar to the Supreme Court of the US and its discernment of cases within the context of the US Constitution.
Apologies for the length of that answer, but that was important for context.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
"Authoritative works" in the Orthodox Church is very different from what is considered normal, in my experience. In the more traditional sense, 'authoritative' works would include the canons, but they also naturally include the Scriptures. I would also throw in the Divine Liturgy as being "authoritative", but again, that gets into the question on what something being "authoritative" means.
So I would recommend the book The Whole Counsel of God by Fr. Stephen de Young. This is not an "authoritative" reference, but rather, more of a discussion on what such a phrase would mean in the context of Orthodox Christianity. Additionally, there is this podcast which I have been referring to called the Lord of Spirits and they discuss this topic on the episode As Delivered by Angels. I would highly recommend it for those who want to learn about how texts come to be considered authoritative in the Orthodox Church.
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"I publicly confess that this teaching clearly reveals truths that will afford us the blessings of life and I submit that the temples and altars that we have dedicated to no advantage be immediately desecrated and burned." [A.D. 627]
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Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
This seems to be substantially different from how the RCC has authoritative sources.Coifi wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:10 pm"Authoritative works" in the Orthodox Church is very different from what is considered normal, in my experience. In the more traditional sense, 'authoritative' works would include the canons, but they also naturally include the Scriptures. I would also throw in the Divine Liturgy as being "authoritative", but again, that gets into the question on what something being "authoritative" means.
So I would recommend the book The Whole Counsel of God by Fr. Stephen de Young. This is not an "authoritative" reference, but rather, more of a discussion on what such a phrase would mean in the context of Orthodox Christianity. Additionally, there is this podcast which I have been referring to called the Lord of Spirits and they discuss this topic on the episode As Delivered by Angels. I would highly recommend it for those who want to learn about how texts come to be considered authoritative in the Orthodox Church.
When did these differences emerge? Were these present before 1054 or did the differences develop in more recent times?
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Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
I am not sure when these differences emerged. It is most likely that it developed over hundreds of years both before and after 1054. It could be dated to the 5th century to St. Leo the Great or to later popes who emphasized the "Universal" bishop to their title. I'm sure historians disagree on this widely. After all journal articles need to be published and dissertations must be written...
I, at the very least, can only guess. What I can say, though, is that how spiritual authority and ecclesiastic hierarchy functions among Orthodox and Catholic Christians is quite different and very real.
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"I publicly confess that this teaching clearly reveals truths that will afford us the blessings of life and I submit that the temples and altars that we have dedicated to no advantage be immediately desecrated and burned." [A.D. 627]
Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
Yes, that resonates with me. I think in some ways, the Liturgy is really what all Orthodox have in common at the deepest level, in their own language, adapted to their culture. Much more than canon law. Would you agree? And I have met very devout Orthodox who are very steeped in the Liturgy, but not as steeped in Scripture. Does that match your experience?Coifi wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:10 pm"Authoritative works" in the Orthodox Church is very different from what is considered normal, in my experience. In the more traditional sense, 'authoritative' works would include the canons, but they also naturally include the Scriptures. I would also throw in the Divine Liturgy as being "authoritative", but again, that gets into the question on what something being "authoritative" means.
Could you perhaps summarize a little? I am SO swamped just now ...Coifi wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:10 pmSo I would recommend the book The Whole Counsel of God by Fr. Stephen de Young. This is not an "authoritative" reference, but rather, more of a discussion on what such a phrase would mean in the context of Orthodox Christianity. Additionally, there is this podcast which I have been referring to called the Lord of Spirits and they discuss this topic on the episode As Delivered by Angels. I would highly recommend it for those who want to learn about how texts come to be considered authoritative in the Orthodox Church.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
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Re: Sources for Patristics, Catholic Doctrine, Orthodox Doctrine
Quite, well said. I will see if I can get Fr Stephen’s book on loan. We are near a Byzantine monastery and they may have it. While they are in communion with Rome, the Byzantine Catholics use the Orthodox Bible.Coifi wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:10 pm"Authoritative works" in the Orthodox Church is very different from what is considered normal, in my experience. In the more traditional sense, 'authoritative' works would include the canons, but they also naturally include the Scriptures. I would also throw in the Divine Liturgy as being "authoritative", but again, that gets into the question on what something being "authoritative" means.
So I would recommend the book The Whole Counsel of God by Fr. Stephen de Young. This is not an "authoritative" reference, but rather, more of a discussion on what such a phrase would mean in the context of Orthodox Christianity. Additionally, there is this podcast which I have been referring to called the Lord of Spirits and they discuss this topic on the episode As Delivered by Angels. I would highly recommend it for those who want to learn about how texts come to be considered authoritative in the Orthodox Church.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God