Re: Help me understand John 5 and the Sabbath
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:43 pm
Looking at some of the Talmudic quotes, with help from ChatGPT. Don't trust these results entirely, but some of this is really hard to get good English translations for and hard to research. I am not sure I know what all of these mean.
- Tosefta Shabbat 17:14:
Context: This passage in Tosefta Shabbat 17 discusses the preparations and actions that are permitted on the Sabbath.
Text:
כָּל צוֹרֵךְ שַׁבָּת, הוֹצֵא לוֹ מִרְאַשֵּׁי הַיּוֹם; בַּעַל אוּרָת צַר הוּא
English Translation: "Any necessary thing for the Sabbath, one may prepare for it from the beginning of the day; it is the master of the trouble that he is." - Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 12a:
Context: This passage in Shabbat 12a discusses actions on Shabbat that produce sounds and the debate between Rabbi Yishmael and Rabbi Nathan regarding such actions.
Text:
תָּנוּ רַבִּי נָתָן וְרַבִּי יִצְחָק, רַבִּי יִצְחָק אוֹמֵר, אַף לַעֲשֹׂות דָּבָר שֶׁיִּשְׁמַע בּוֹ שָׁבָת וְיוֹם טוֹב, רַבִּי נָתָן אוֹמֵר, אַף לְהִשְׁמִיעַ מַצְּאֵנוּ בְּשַׁבָּת
English Translation: "The school of Rabbi Yishmael taught: Rabbi Yishmael says: Even to perform an action on Shabbat or a festival day that produces a sound [is prohibited]. Rabbi Nathan says: Even to have our nails cut on Shabbat is prohibited." - Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 124a:
Context: This passage in Shabbat 124a discusses the use of Tefillin (phylacteries) and their placement in a bag or container.
Text:
מֵאֵימָתַי אוֹמְרִים שִׁמּוּשׁ תְּפִלִּין בִּשְׁכַיִּלָּה
English Translation: "From when do they say the use of Tefillin in a bag?" - Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 31a:
Context: This passage in Shabbat 31a discusses activities that produce sounds on Shabbat or festival days and the debate between Rabbi Yishmael and Rabbi Nathan regarding such activities.
Text:
תָּנוּ רַבִּי נָתָן וְרַבִּי יִצְחָק, רַבִּי יִצְחָק אוֹמֵר, אַף לַעֲשֹׂות דָּבָר שֶׁיִּשְׁמַע בּוֹ שָׁבָת וְיוֹם טוֹב, רַבִּי נָתָן אוֹמֵר, אַף לְהִשְׁמִיעַ מַצְּאֵנוּ בְּשַׁבָּת
English Translation: "The school of Rabbi Yishmael taught: Rabbi Yishmael says: Even to perform an action on Shabbat or a festival day that produces a sound [is prohibited]. Rabbi Nathan says: Even to have our nails cut on Shabbat is prohibited." - Babylonian Talmud, Eruvin 67b:
Context: This passage in Eruvin 67b discusses a dispute between Rabbi Nathan and another individual regarding a certain action and whether it is permissible on Shabbat.
Text:
וּבָעוּ לְשַׁמְּעוֹ דַּרְבֵּי נָתָן וּבָאוּ לִפְנֵי רַב חִסְדָּא, אָמַר לֵיהּ, לֹא תַּעֲשֶׂה, אֲמַר לוֹ, אִם לֹא תַעֲשֶׂה, כֵּיוָן דְּבֵי רַבִּי יִשְׁמָעֵאל הוּא דְּתַעֲשֵׂי, אֲמַר לוֹ, אִם תַּעֲשֶׂה, לֹא תֵּלֵךְ מִפָּנַי
English Translation: "And they came to hear the ruling of Rabbi Nathan, and they came before Rav Ḥisda. He said to him: Do not perform this action. Rabbi Nathan said to him: If you do not perform this action, then all members of the school of Rabbi Yishmael, who is the one who acts in this manner, will not pass before you."