To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain

[mike]

John Overholt actually did try to have a “pure” hymnal, choosing to evict some beloved hymns because he didn’t like the origin of the hymn.

Which led to copies of Zion’s Praises, etc. ending up in the pew racks.

What an awful “hymnal” that is. (It’s one of the ones in our racks.)

I’ve sung out of that hymnal just a handful of times. Why do you think it’s awful.

It’s mostly light gospel songs. Very short on genuine worship music and great hymns.

[ken_sylvania]

What an awful “hymnal” that is. (It’s one of the ones in our racks.)

I’ve sung out of that hymnal just a handful of times. Why do you think it’s awful.

It’s mostly light gospel songs. Very short on genuine worship music and great hymns.

It's fun to sing out of in kind of the same way that it's fun to eat a bag of potato chips once in a while

[Soloist]

Wife: It’s excellent for nursing homes. 807 is my favorite song in Zions Praise and I don’t think it’s fluffy. with a lot of them you might be right though.

[Josh]

I've actually got a soft spot for the 1927 Church Hymnal. Song #292 in particular.

[Ernie]

To Be or Not to Be Plain?: A serious call to Anabaptist cultural integrity. By John D. Martin | 2022

Ernie, I have ordered the book, should arrive today or tomorrow, but as such I will not comment here, other than to ask ahead of reading it: is this essentially the John D. version of Clifford Martin's "Maintaining Biblical Conservatism" book from 2007?

Heir,

Is that book worth picking up a copy of and reading?

One of my deep frustrations is that “Maintaining Moderate-Conservative Mennonitism” does not seem to actually be very scriptural, particularly as it relies on more-conservative “feeder churches” to keep such churches from running out of members.

Even if that is what scriptural Christian practice is, some sort of plan is needed other than “Locate near horse and buggy people and lure their members”, as that is simply not how I read the Great Commission.

Clifford Martin's "Maintaining Biblical Conservatism" is a defense of the Ultra-conservative Swiss/German Mennonite perspective.

John D. Martin's To Be or Not to Be Plain?: is a defense of tradition and cultural non-conformity. Unlike many other books on this topic, John D. Martin specifically argues against the need for a chapter and verse to defend every practice a church decides to embrace. (John's perspective is basically the Old Order perspective.) I found this refreshing.
In a nut-shell, I hear John saying, "Just acknowledge culture and tradition for what it is and embrace it."

[PetrChelcicky]

My two points are:
Don't do it, as long as it is fashionable. For example: four-part-singing may have been a problem hundred years ago, but nowadays it is no more fashionable, so why not do it?
Make visible that people cannot expect you to share their ideas. Because this is the basic danger: We all are trained to match other peoples expectations, so our best way out is to stop people from the beginning to have expectations at all.

[joshuabgood]

I found this refreshing.
In a nut-shell, I hear John saying, "Just acknowledge culture and tradition for what it is and embrace it."

Yes...so long as we are clear that that is what it is. Not holiness, spirituality, etc...and that other cultures, that say, like the beat on 2 and 4 and don't care for the purple martin are affirmed.

[Neto]

My two points are:
Don't do it, as long as it is fashionable. For example: four-part-singing may have been a problem hundred years ago, but nowadays it is no more fashionable, so why not do it?
Make visible that people cannot expect you to share their ideas. Because this is the basic danger: We all are trained to match other peoples expectations, so our best way out is to stop people from the beginning to have expectations at all.

Reminds me what my sister told me once: "You just always have to be different". And I do not differ with that assessment, at least to a point. I wore white shirts and also flannel shirts to school in HS (1971 - 1974). My pants got short, so I sewed the bottom piece off of an old bed spread onto the bottom of the pant legs. I parted my hair in the middle all through HS, and NEVER wore it over my forehead, as was the style then. I grew an afro in Bible Institute. (OK, that one was sort of the style, at least for some people. Actually, I found out how fake some people were when I did that, because the edgy popular girls there all of a sudden started being friendly.) I could go on and on, like that in recent years, when some sort of - - "hipsters" is the term, I think, started wearing flannel shirts, I quit wearing them. In HS, when the "ideal hot car was one with the back end jacked up to the sky - I was into low-riders (before they called them that). Now, when the hot car is one that will "lay frame", I'm not interested. I never cared for 'muscle cars", and always liked 4-door cars, even though they were strictly "not cool". One of my HS teachers wrote in my annual my Senior year how she admired me for being an individualist, "my own bear" so to speak. (The funny thing is that in the last several years, when I read the "profile of a mass shooter" I was very much reminded of what she had written. So I guess it's a good thing I was in HS back then, and not now.... )

[mike]

I've actually got a soft spot for the 1927 Church Hymnal. Song #292 in particular.

That’s a great hymnal.

[mike]

Wife: It’s excellent for nursing homes. 807 is my favorite song in Zions Praise and I don’t think it’s fluffy. with a lot of them you might be right though.

We use the Christian Hymnal for nursing homes which is even worse in my opinion. But in reality there are some good hymns in these books. But the song leaders just can’t seem to find them.