Yes. As does the Christian Hymnal by Josh's denomination. This is an interesting topic in its own right.Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:01 amHis song book, Hymns of the Church, is an interesting/conflicting title in that it includes Hymns from Catholics, Protestants, and Reformers who persecuted our spiritual forbearers.Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:41 pmOf a somewhat larger scope, he did not talk at all about some of the traditions the Old Orders would like to keep that the evangelical Mennonites tended to want to promote, such as one-part singing being replaced by four-part singing (although John D. Martin has confessed, I believe at AIC, that four-part singing is indeed a manifestation of a current towards conformity with the world in terms of music).
To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
If prior to learning what I knew now… I think I would have that it was a ridiculous book. Focused on the issue of self yet arguing for a form of self expression.
What is normal to them and how they were raised while looking at others as worldly. To me at the time I would have seen their inability to submit to anything that wasn’t their own historical practice and identified them hypocrites.
The insular nature of the group is good for maintaining a set of practice but is unable to see anything else as issues.
Sure there was things I needed to conform on but there are things they are blind to but as a group. Because of that, they are unable to heed warnings about any historical practice or things they believe are historical.
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Soloist, but I hate singing alone
Soloist, but my wife posts with me
Soloist, but I believe in community
Soloist, but I want God in the pilot seat
Soloist, but my wife posts with me
Soloist, but I believe in community
Soloist, but I want God in the pilot seat
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Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
John Overholt actually did try to have a “pure” hymnal, choosing to evict some beloved hymns because he didn’t like the origin of the hymn.mike wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:03 amYes. As does the Christian Hymnal by Josh's denomination. This is an interesting topic in its own right.Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:01 amHis song book, Hymns of the Church, is an interesting/conflicting title in that it includes Hymns from Catholics, Protestants, and Reformers who persecuted our spiritual forbearers.Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:41 pmOf a somewhat larger scope, he did not talk at all about some of the traditions the Old Orders would like to keep that the evangelical Mennonites tended to want to promote, such as one-part singing being replaced by four-part singing (although John D. Martin has confessed, I believe at AIC, that four-part singing is indeed a manifestation of a current towards conformity with the world in terms of music).
Which led to copies of Zion’s Praises, etc. ending up in the pew racks.
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Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
What an awful “hymnal” that is. (It’s one of the ones in our racks.)Josh wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:09 pmJohn Overholt actually did try to have a “pure” hymnal, choosing to evict some beloved hymns because he didn’t like the origin of the hymn.
Which led to copies of Zion’s Praises, etc. ending up in the pew racks.
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
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Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
Zion's Praises was never intended by the compilers to be a church hymnbook.mike wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:55 pmWhat an awful “hymnal” that is. (It’s one of the ones in our racks.)
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Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
Ernie, I have ordered the book, should arrive today or tomorrow, but as such I will not comment here, other than to ask ahead of reading it: is this essentially the John D. version of Clifford Martin's "Maintaining Biblical Conservatism" book from 2007?Ernie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:28 pmTo Be or Not to Be Plain?: A serious call to Anabaptist cultural integrity. By John D. Martin | 2022https://www.amazon.com/Be-Not-Plain-Ana ... 1680010360Read the booklet and then discuss. Only those who have read the booklet may post on this thread.For many years, all Anabaptist groups embodied their Gospel beliefs and values in distinctive cultural norms to which all members were held accountable. We currently hear that such forms are imposed "man-made rules" that militate against a genuine personal experience with Christ. This booklet investigates the following questions:
Has God ever endorsed "man-made rules"?
Do distinctive cultural norms violate the Gospel?
Does a relaxing of distinctive cultural norms lead to greater evangelistic success?
If "the past is prologue," what can we learn from groups that relaxed their distinctive practices?
Answering these questions is important, because decisions have consequences, and wise believers base their decisions on the consequences they desire.
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Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
Heir,
Is that book worth picking up a copy of and reading?
One of my deep frustrations is that “Maintaining Moderate-Conservative Mennonitism” does not seem to actually be very scriptural, particularly as it relies on more-conservative “feeder churches” to keep such churches from running out of members.
Even if that is what scriptural Christian practice is, some sort of plan is needed other than “Locate near horse and buggy people and lure their members”, as that is simply not how I read the Great Commission.
Is that book worth picking up a copy of and reading?
One of my deep frustrations is that “Maintaining Moderate-Conservative Mennonitism” does not seem to actually be very scriptural, particularly as it relies on more-conservative “feeder churches” to keep such churches from running out of members.
Even if that is what scriptural Christian practice is, some sort of plan is needed other than “Locate near horse and buggy people and lure their members”, as that is simply not how I read the Great Commission.
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Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
For what it's worth, this book is available for $.99 in Kindle version.
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
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Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
I’ve sung out of that hymnal just a handful of times. Why do you think it’s awful.mike wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:55 pmWhat an awful “hymnal” that is. (It’s one of the ones in our racks.)
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Affiliation: Lancaster Mennonite Conference & Honduran Mennonite Evangelical Church
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Re: To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain
It's not a hymnal, it's a song book. In order to qualify as a hymnal a book should have a good selection of hymns included.HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:17 amI’ve sung out of that hymnal just a handful of times. Why do you think it’s awful.
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