To Be Plain or Not to Be Plain

[Ernie]

A big one is how much Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees "fencing the torah".

I have a problem with refusing communion and full fellowship to "kingdom Christians".

However, the individual who introduced "fence around the Torah" to Anabaptists 10 years ago, built one of the biggest fences I have seen yet in Anabaptist and kingdom Christian churches. People who joined his church felt they were baited/switched and one told me that he now has appreciation for those who simply state their fences up front, rather than sneaking it in after people have joined the church.

So the "fence around the Torah" concept is interesting but so far there are very few churches who claim to not have a fence, (and actually don't have one) yet actually stand for something. I have some friends who lead a church like this, but very few people can lead this way and be honest about it.

[Josh]

It's a big theme in the New Testament, and it's taken seriously in many evangelical churches.

It has been a rather serious theme of Protestantism since Luther, who extended Augustinian Christianity to now basically expect you to be a habitual sinner (including in serious moral areas). I consider this a grievous failure of the evangelical churches - they claim to be about the gospel, but the gospel should include freedom from sin, not falling into habitual sin the rest of your life.

Now, my opinion on evangelical churches isn't so much what they choose to enforce, but how they choose to enforce (or not enforce) the convictions they DO have. It's a slippery slope from:
"we won't teach it, but if pressed about it, we'll admit that some Christians do make a choice to follow that teaching, but it's not a salvation issue,"
to
"okay, just forget it."

As soon as the words "salvation issue" escape someone's lips, all hope is lost. The truth is that every aspect of a Christian's life is actually a salvation issue - right down to whether or not I want to choose to speak a kind word to a transfer or I decide to be a bit selfish and be a little gruff and rude instead.

The reality is that Jesus expected us to follow him in every area of life, and that the New Testament is not a law book. But we are expected, as individual believers and as the church, to discern exactly how we should follow Jesus in every area of life, today.

It is extremely obvious to me that a sincere Christian does not choose to buy hard street drugs and spend the rest of his life sitting around getting high, yet the New Testament doesn't really dictate this anywhere at all.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

... the gospel should include freedom from sin, not falling into habitual sin the rest of your life.

I agree with this, but we are talking about habits and cultures that are built around separation from the world, not separation from sin. If we are debating whether it's right for a church to enforce only black-colored vehicles for its members, phrases like "falling into habitual sin for the rest of your life" are unhelpful because that is just NOT in the same realm as vehicle color. Only owning black vehicles isn't "freedom from sin". The merits or setbacks of discipline in vehicle color (or other plain practices) can be discussed, but equating these specific practices to "freedom from sin" vs "lifelong habitual sin" is where the discussion breaks down. It gives evangelicals the ammo they need to claim "legalism" because they've just heard someone explicitly equate certain vehicle colors with "sin".

The reality is that Jesus expected us to follow him in every area of life, and that the New Testament is not a law book. But we are expected, as individual believers and as the church, to discern exactly how we should follow Jesus in every area of life, today.

Amen!

The reality is that Jesus expected us to follow him in every area of life, and that the New Testament is not a law book. But we are expected, as individual believers and as the church, to discern exactly how we should follow Jesus in every area of life, today.

Amen! (It bears repeating).

[Josh]

I agree with this, but we are talking about habits and cultures that are built around separation from the world, not separation from sin. If we are debating whether it's right for a church to enforce only black-colored vehicles for its members, phrases like "falling into habitual sin for the rest of your life" are unhelpful because that is just NOT in the same realm as vehicle color. Only owning black vehicles isn't "freedom from sin". The merits or setbacks of discipline in vehicle color (or other plain practices) can be discussed, but equating these specific practices to "freedom from sin" vs "lifelong habitual sin" is where the discussion breaks down. It gives evangelicals the ammo they need to claim "legalism" because they've just heard someone explicitly equate certain vehicle colors with "sin".

When evangelicals can demonstrate that their approach results in a church full of spirit-filled people who follow Jesus' instructions to us in the New Testament and also follow the apostles' doctrine, including nonresistance, the head covering, and dressing modestly, simply, and discreetly, I will be interested in hearing more about their approach. Until they do, I don't think they have any credibility to talk about such issues. The amount of rampant
immorality in evangelical circles these days is frankly disturbing and renders their criticism of, say, the Amish null and void.

Ultimately, I find myself not really caring what evangelicals think too much (other than needing to when someone in my church starts reading a book written by an evangelical or starting to get bad ideas from then). They're embrace of low-quality, low-brow right wing subculture is frankly disappointing and the embrace of evangelical elites of left-wing progressive thinking is even more disappointing. None of it has to do with following Christ, but all of it has to do with finding ways to conform to the world.

It is entirely reasonable for a church to decide that it is necessary to ensure that vehicles (which are very expensive) not lead us into sin by violating the New Testament's clear teaching on wealth, simplicity, thrift, and humility. The real question is why evangelicals think they can't talk about vehicles at all.

[RZehr]

I liked the pamphlet, To Be Plain or Not To Be Plain.