The Mark of the Beast in Revelation

[Sudsy]

I chose to be a Pan-millennialists - it will all “pan” out in the end. There is a warning in the Revelation about 'adding to' or 'taking away' from the prophecy of the book and I have often wondered if some of the interpretations of it, have actually done this - Rev 22:19. And some believe this warning also includes the entire Bible. If the latter is true, I would think most Christian faith groups might be guilty.

I don't believe a Christian needs to live in fear about where the world seems to be heading as we have access to a peace that goes beyond all understandings as we are continuously filled with the Holy Spirit.

If anything, what we know happens to everyone historically, is that our next breath could be our last one and then whatever occurs after that is out of our control. Today is what matters most as no one is assured of a tomorrow.

I can read the Revelation and ponder how things will unfold but to get dogmatic about how it will unfold might be dangerous. After being raised with some pretty strong detailed beliefs about what will take place, I have chosen to not go this route and try to focus more on the here and now. In which, I still struggle to make the best of.

[Heirbyadoption]

I chose to be a Pan-millennialists - it will all “pan” out in the end...I can read the Revelation and ponder how things will unfold but to get dogmatic about how it will unfold might be dangerous. After being raised with some pretty strong detailed beliefs about what will take place, I have chosen to not go this route and try to focus more on the here and now. In which, I still struggle to make the best of.

Sudsy, so how does a "panmillennial" apply the exhortation of Revelation 1:3 to read, hear, and keep/guard what is written in the book of Revelation?

[barnhart]

I chose to be a Pan-millennialists - it will all “pan” out in the end...I can read the Revelation and ponder how things will unfold but to get dogmatic about how it will unfold might be dangerous. After being raised with some pretty strong detailed beliefs about what will take place, I have chosen to not go this route and try to focus more on the here and now. In which, I still struggle to make the best of.

Sudsy, so how does a "panmillennial" apply the exhortation of Revelation 1:3 to read, hear, and keep/guard what is written in the book of Revelation?

I wouldn't call myself a pan-millenialist, but I share some of his horror at the specificity of end times speculation. I imagine when John wrote down the word "Babylon", he was thinking Rome, and so were his readers as Rome was the world empire of his day. Similarly when I read "Babylon", I consider what stands in the that place today. A specific timeline understanding is not a prerequisite for hearing and keeping Revelation. Recently I read through it I was amazed at how empowering and encouraging it is for sheep.

[MaxPC]

I chose to be a Pan-millennialists - it will all “pan” out in the end.
I don't believe a Christian needs to live in fear about where the world seems to be heading as we have access to a peace that goes beyond all understandings as we are continuously filled with the Holy Spirit.

If anything, what we know happens to everyone historically, is that our next breath could be our last one and then whatever occurs after that is out of our control. Today is what matters most as no one is assured of a tomorrow.

I can read the Revelation and ponder how things will unfold but to get dogmatic about how it will unfold might be dangerous. After being raised with some pretty strong detailed beliefs about what will take place, I have chosen to not go this route and try to focus more on the here and now. In which, I still struggle to make the best of.

I agree with the bolded. While I do believe that we need to be careful about adding to or taking away from the teachings in the Bible, I do not believe that we have a particular script for when the end will come. Jesus Himself stated that not even He knows that appointment.

Mark 13
No One Knows That Day or Hour
32 “But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come.

[Sudsy]

I chose to be a Pan-millennialists - it will all “pan” out in the end...I can read the Revelation and ponder how things will unfold but to get dogmatic about how it will unfold might be dangerous. After being raised with some pretty strong detailed beliefs about what will take place, I have chosen to not go this route and try to focus more on the here and now. In which, I still struggle to make the best of.

Sudsy, so how does a "panmillennial" apply the exhortation of Revelation 1:3 to read, hear, and keep/guard what is written in the book of Revelation?

I take this to mean to not ignore this Revelation and by reading it, we will be blessed. But it comes with a warning that the reader keep from distorting these prophesies. I believe we can distort them through additions, subtractions, falsifications, alterations, or intentional misinterpretations.

What especially blesses me is that throughout whatever occurs in the future, God has not lost ultimate control and some day He will bring about His will here on earth as it is in Heaven. His Kingdom will come and He will reign forever. Satan is currently permitted to have rule in this world but this rule will soon have an end. I believe the early church thought it would end in their lifetime and we should live as if it will in ours.

I don't know just where the line will be drawn when it comes to going too far in interpreting the events and timings spoken of in the Revelation and at times I wonder about the varied interpretations that sometimes go as far as date setting and then are proven wrong. I have heard sermons where there appears to be nothing left to be fulfilled but some things would appear to me to still need to take place as I understand them. What I do know is the end is closer than it was yesterday. And if my timing understandings are wrong, it could be any moment now that the trumpet sounds.

To me, I need to live now as if this could be my last breath, as this will occur in my lifetime. And the timeline for this is quite limited and guaranteed. I have already passed the three score and ten which to me is quite amazing.

[Josh]

JohnHurt,

Amish accept credit cards, debit cards, and routinely deposit checks into their own bank accounts. We frequently also receive payments from Amish people paid via check. Banks in Amish country cater to Amish people - such as drive thrus they accomodate a horse and buggy and alternative ways of showing ID other than a driver licence.

In any case, paper cash is no different than a check - it is simply a negotiable instrument, payable to the bearer, drawn on the Federal Reserve. I can’t imagine how a check is any different than paper cash. (Coins are legally slightly different but that is not a useful distinction and in any case I have not heard of anyone who does business exclusively in quarters and dollar coins…)

[JohnHurt]

JohnHurt,

Amish accept credit cards, debit cards, and routinely deposit checks into their own bank accounts. We frequently also receive payments from Amish people paid via check. Banks in Amish country cater to Amish people - such as drive thrus they accomodate a horse and buggy and alternative ways of showing ID other than a driver licence.

In any case, paper cash is no different than a check - it is simply a negotiable instrument, payable to the bearer, drawn on the Federal Reserve. I can’t imagine how a check is any different than paper cash. (Coins are legally slightly different but that is not a useful distinction and in any case I have not heard of anyone who does business exclusively in quarters and dollar coins…)

A paper check promising to pay in paper money has as much value as everyone believes that it has, as long as it is backed by a "viable" government. A gold or silver coin is better, because it is backed by the precious metal it contains. Confederate paper money is worthless, but Confederate gold coins are just as valuable as ever. US Federal Reserve Notes could easily end up inflating like the Reichsmark in Weimar Germany, and if that happens, you can paper your walls with them. But the good old US Silver Dollar will always be just as valuable as the day it was minted. They are around $30.00 now. https://online.kitco.com/american-silver-eagle-coins

My Amish friends at the Vernon Community don't take checks, so they must be under a different ordnung than your Amish group. I understand that each Amish assembly is autonomous and under their own set of rules.

I routinely provide frozen lamb meat for those that provide eggs to us, or anyone that needs it, and last week I received a very good painting by donating 4 ram lambs to the artist and his family. We don't keep score, it is not barter, just "gifts" between friends. No Federal Reserve Notes, no CBDCs, and no "mark" required.

If you ever want to trade or donate to the Amish, bring a load of firewood. I helped one of my Amish friends cut wood with a crosscut saw, and I don't see how they stay warm in the winter without a chain saw.

The information in Revelation about the Mark of the Beast, and that no man may buy or sell without the mark, is not in there to entertain or confuse us, but to help us. I think it contains a message that is good for every age, and is not just for our time period.

Joseph and Noah both saved their families from certain death by being prepared. If reading Revelation makes you want to be prepared for the future, there is nothing wrong with that. God will protect us, and provide for us, and show us how we need to prepare.

[RZehr]

I’m not a fan of gold either, any more than paper. The Bible explicitly warns about trusting in gold and silver, and how perishable these metals are. Why pile up gold for the day of trouble, when this is what is written?

“They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.” Ezekiel 7:19

“Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.” James 5:1-3

“Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:” 1 Peter 1:6-7

“Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold,..” 1 Peter 1:18

And of course Matthew address the concept of storing treasures:
“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” Matthew 6:19-21

[Ken]

The Chinese actually invented paper money in the 11th Century and the first Chinese money was produced by hand with woodblock printing.

In the west, the printing press was was invented by Gutenberg in 1440 and didn't become perfected and commercially available until about 1450. But printed paper money issued by central banks didn't really become a thing until the early 19th Century. In the US, the first bank notes issued by a government-controlled central bank were not issued until 1862. Before that it was just various banknotes issued by random banks.

So the notion of government-issued and mass produced paper money as we understand it today was at least 1500-2000 years in the future when the Bible verses related to money were written.

[ohio jones]

I helped one of my Amish friends cut wood with a crosscut saw, and I don't see how they stay warm in the winter without a chain saw.

They stay warm by sawing wood, of course. Wood warms you twice: Once when you cut it, and again when you burn it.

But Tennessee/Kentucky is not Manitoba, either.