The Mark of the Beast in Revelation

[Soloist]

Is there anything pertinent about the word ποιέω ?

It's a very generic word for "do". English translations look at "do signs" and tend to translate "perform signs" or such. It's in the present active, implying that these signs are performed over time, not just once.

Whatever the mark of the beast is, it is the identity of someone who performs signs and wonders.

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

So the causeth all doesn’t mean or imply force?

[Bootstrap]

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

So the causeth all doesn’t mean or imply force?

Ah, the same word is used more than once in this passage. It's used in verse 13 for "do signs", and it is also used in verse 16 to mean, essentially, that he did something to cause them to receive a mark.

That Greek word does not tell us whether any kind of force is involved. However, the verse goes on to say that people without the mark cannot buy or sell. Which would compel most people to get it.

[Soloist]

Thanks

[Ken]

What if… Jesus meant what He said

Husband grew up Catholic, left for Calvary Chapel movement in early 20s. Calvary was dispensationalist regarding eschatology. So he wondered why what he was learning at Calvary was not taught in the Catholic church. 40 years later we understood. I was from Calvary type churches too. We were taught a literal mark as stated in Scripture.

About 20 years ago at our Foursquare Gospel Church, an elder was giving a course on End Times. For the first time we heard the theory that the mark on the hand & forehead were not literal but representing though (forehead) & i can't remember the hand symbolism. At any rate, he taught we would not be looking for a mark to be put on our hand and forehead. Besides they believed in preacher rapture so this would be people after the rapture that would be put to this requirement of following the antichrist. My husband and I were not comfortable with this teaching it is hard for me to see it in the other way but literal. Scripture does the Mark will be on the hand OR the forehead so like Ken it looks to me pretty specific that it's an actual mark or why would there be a choice of head or hand?

I have no idea what "preacher rapture" is but it sounds like a teaching I would probably not be comfortable with either.

I'm imagining a sermon in which the preacher goes "poof" and is raptured up mid-sermon. That would be a sight to see.

[ohio jones]

I'm imagining a sermon in which the preacher goes "poof" and is raptured up mid-sermon. That would be a sight to see.

Sort of the opposite of the Tampico Amish Mennonites, yet somewhat similar?

[Josh]

I'm imagining a sermon in which the preacher goes "poof" and is raptured up mid-sermon. That would be a sight to see.

Sort of the opposite of the Tampico Amish Mennonites, yet somewhat similar?

Well, that would answer the whole “wheat and the tares” debate.

[Bootstrap]

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

So the causeth all doesn’t mean or imply force?

Ah, the same word is used more than once in this passage. It's used in verse 13 for "do signs", and it is also used in verse 16 to mean, essentially, that he did something to cause them to receive a mark.

That Greek word does not tell us whether any kind of force is involved. However, the verse goes on to say that people without the mark cannot buy or sell. Which would compel most people to get it.

One other detail that sheds light on your question: It implies that there are people who do not have the mark on their right hands and foreheads, these are the people who are unable to buy and sell. There's no depiction of people having it done to them against their will - but also no statement that this does not happen to some people. If it happens, apparently not to everyone.

[JohnHurt]

Looking at how the "mark" is used in the rest of the Book of Revelation gives more information:

Revelation 14:(10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 15:(1) And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

(2) And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

(3) And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Rev 16:(1) And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

(2) And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

Rev 19:(15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

(16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

(17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

(18) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

(19) And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

(20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:(4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

"foreheads":

Rev 7:(3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Rev 9:(4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Rev 14:(1) And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Rev 22:(3) And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

(4) And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Consider this:

Leviticus 19:(28) Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

The "seal of God" in your forehead is not a literal mark by God, otherwise it would violate God's Law in Lev 19:28.

The mark on your forehead is what you think about, and the mark on your right hand is what you do.

The Beast is the false economic system based on usury banking, and the False Prophet is the church system that hides the truth and supports the Beast.

The Beast only wages war on those that keep the Commandments, as they have the faith of Jesus. Rev 12:17, Rev 14:12. (I wonder where the lions are?)

Only those that keep the Commandments enter heaven (Rev 22:14), which is the same doctrine of salvation that Christ taught. (Matt 19:16-19). Christ also taught that you have to provide for the needs of other people to be saved (Matt 25:31-46), as well as many other things that are hidden today. The False Christ teaches a different doctrine, which is the true mark of the Beast that is on our foreheads for what we think, and our hands for what we do.

If we are selfish and don't help other people as Christ commanded, that is the mark of the Beast economic system.

[Soloist]

The mark on your forehead is what you think about, and the mark on your right hand is what you do.

Wife: I don’t know about the rest of what John Hurt is saying, and I’m not making an opinion on what the mark is, but I have actually heard the thought about the forehead and the right hand being representative of your thoughts and your actions, like a belief system someone is supposed to adopt, and maybe they believe it, or maybe they just act like they do to avoid persecution. I suppose either that or physical tattoos/ect are probably good things to avoid.

Carry on.

[JohnHurt]

The mark on your forehead is what you think about, and the mark on your right hand is what you do.

Wife: I don’t know about the rest of what John Hurt is saying, and I’m not making an opinion on what the mark is, but I have actually heard the thought about the forehead and the right hand being representative of your thoughts and your actions, like a belief system someone is supposed to adopt, and maybe they believe it, or maybe they just act like they do to avoid persecution. I suppose either that or physical tattoos/ect are probably good things to avoid.

Carry on.

"That no man may buy or sell" is the part that doesn't makes sense to me, which makes it the most interesting part - I would love to hear your ideas:

Rev 13:(17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

From what I understand, throughout history, if you had a gold coin, you could walk up to a vendor and buy what he had for sale. The same is true for paper money. A government really cannot control a purchaser of small amounts of goods.

A government might control who can sell items in a public market, like the old guilds, but there has always been a "black market" where vendors can illegally sell items to the public that are banned by the government.

So how would the "no man may buy or sell" be accomplished?:

Here is what two commentaries say about this:

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

no man might buy or sell] Such disabilities seem to have been actually imposed, at least in the Diocletian persecution, by requiring business transactions to be preceded by pagan formulas.

Matthew Poole's Commentary

And that no man might buy or sell: this the popish church effects by its excommunications; it was begun in the council of Lateran, anathematizing all who entertained any of the Waldenses, or traded with them; and the late learned bishop of Armagh, in his book Deu Successione Ecclesiae, hath given us an account of such a canon of a synod in France, which in express terms forbade any commerce with heretics in buying or selling. Paraeus tells us Pope Martin the Fifth hath best interpreted this prophecy, in his bull added to the council of Constance, where he prohibits Roman Catholics to suffer any heretics to have any dwellings in their countries, or to make any bargains, or use any trades, or to perform to them any civil offices.

Source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/13-17.htm

These two statements do not address the "black marke", which is where those without the "mark" would purchase what they need.

But what "could" stop all unauthorized buying and selling are the proposed CBDC's - or "Central Bank Digital Currencies", that can only be accessed using a "Digital ID" in a "cashless society".

With CBDCs, if you run afoul of the "Beast System" - like not giving your children to them for indoctrination - then your CBDC bank account would be frozen, and your Digital ID made invalid. Without cash, you would not be able to buy or sell.

A friend of mine worked for the State of Tennessee - and when payroll wanted everyone to go to direct deposit, he refused and would not give them a bank account, as he was opposed to banking for religious reasons. So they continued giving him a check until he retired. He would take the check to the bank where it originated, and cash it, and pay cash for everything.

The Amish do something similar - they only take cash if you purchase from them. I wrote a check as a donation to my Amish doctor, and it took about 8 weeks to clear. They had signed it over and traded it to an "Englisher" and it went into his account, not theirs.

It will be much harder to get these people to use CBDCs.

Every time the Adversary lays a trap, it is usually the non-Christians that are ensnared, as our Lord provides a way for us when there is no way.

If CBDCs are the gateway to our complete control under the mark of the beast, then God will open a way for us, perhaps through Bitcoin, or by a barter system between Christians.

But the hope to all of us is that there are those in Revelation that never received the mark, or the number of his name.

Rev 15:(2) And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

So how would you "overcome the Beast" and operate without a bank account? Could a barter system be set up using things you create yourself? Would gold and silver be important for bartering? Or would there have to be a "Christian Community" that shares things?

Acts 2: (44) And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

(45) And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

What do you think?