Modern lingo and Anabaptist tradition

[PetrChelcicky]

Just new from "Anabaptist world":
https://anabaptistworld.org/when-peace- ... s-violent/

This female pastor was pastored/pestered with letters that she should not look for a divorce but be concilatory and forgiving to her husband.
About the facts I tend to support her: From my Lutheran upbringing I see humans as imperfect and rules should allow for their weakness, including divorce. It's quite possible that - as she says - she could indeed be more forgiving after the divorce than before.

That said, she goes a step too far.
I have some time ago said that I strongly oppose the inflated application of terms like "abuse". Here we have an example. She declares that she has been a victim of "spiritual abuse" and "spiritual violence" by peope who reminded her of some Biblical or at least Anabaptist traditions. If we are not even allowed to do that, we can throw in the towel.
She definitely felt under pressure, but that's only because she herself had accepted some Biblical/Anabaptist rules before. So it was her own task to find a way between her personal needs and Anabaptist tradition. She should have taken responsibility for her own feelings instead of attacking others for making her feel bad.
The tendency here is to invent a new religion which makes "I must feel-good" the decisive standard and attacks everyone who doesn't live up to this standard. A general tendency in our modern world and it will not be compatible to Anabaptist tradition.

[Neto]

What a tangled mess. Why, if she already planned to leave/divorce her husband, did she continue to ..... Oh, never mind. I simply cannot sort out this story. Where is his side of the story, or even that of the ones who advised her differently?

[Valerie]

Just new from "Anabaptist world":
https://anabaptistworld.org/when-peace- ... s-violent/

This female pastor was pastored/pestered with letters that she should not look for a divorce but be concilatory and forgiving to her husband.
About the facts I tend to support her: From my Lutheran upbringing I see humans as imperfect and rules should allow for their weakness, including divorce. It's quite possible that - as she says - she could indeed be more forgiving after the divorce than before.

That said, she goes a step too far.
I have some time ago said that I strongly oppose the inflated application of terms like "abuse". Here we have an example. She declares that she has been a victim of "spiritual abuse" and "spiritual violence" by peope who reminded her of some Biblical or at least Anabaptist traditions. If we are not even allowed to do that, we can throw in the towel.
She definitely felt under pressure, but that's only because she herself had accepted some Biblical/Anabaptist rules before. So it was her own task to find a way between her personal needs and Anabaptist tradition. She should have taken responsibility for her own feelings instead of attacking others for making her feel bad.
The tendency here is to invent a new religion which makes "I must feel-good" the decisive standard and attacks everyone who doesn't live up to this standard. A general tendency in our modern world and it will not be compatible to Anabaptist tradition.

I was in an emotionally abusive alcoholic marriage for 7 years. People were worried about me & also the children living in that environment. I truly did not know what to do as i had fallen away from the Lord, and the pain & treatment is what helped me return to Christ.
A needed separation in hopes of healing & reconciliation didn't happen, & unfortunately divorce did- my husband found a mutual partier-
I was single parent not planning to remarry but raising two young children in the faith in a heathier environment.
I did remarry since we were seemingly put together by the Lord. With my first husband's new marriage, pastors counseled me that door was closed and I was free to remarry. I was at peace being single parent.

Speed up 15 years of second marriage and I move from California to Ohio and for the first time I met Anabaptist people, namely an evangelical Amish who shared their faith at length. At that point I sought out learning about the anabaptist history and faith and started seeing things a lot differently. Even though I had always read my Bible I realized I have glossed over scriptures that the Anabaptist helped bring to light.

My husband and I drove to Leola Pennsylvania to seek out joining the Charity churches because I had been listening to their pastors messages and reading the Heartbeat of the Remnant publication.

One of the pastors and his wife took time out of their Saturday when I called to see if it was possible to talk to them about our pursuit. They were gracious and kind with us and explained that the way they saw it I was in an adulterous marriage because my first husband was still alive even though remarried. If we joined we would have to live in separate housing. This was a difficult decision to consider but we totally understood where they were coming from. My husband was on disability we could not see that the Lord would want us to live separate - but were not sure-

All this to say, I guess for some that could have felt like real rejection and spiritual abuse from a church trying to be harsh with our situation but we did not see it that way and we did not hold it against them at all. We only admired them for their convictions. It was not our place to try to change them nor was it our place to try to make them look bad because they could not welcome us as members as a remarried couple. My husband had not been married before I should say.

My first husband died from his alcoholic liver disease at 57- still, not sure how they would view us since we didn't separate back then, but i don't know what to think of this woman's situation. It took "others" to convince me i was being emotionally abused, I thought I was to blame for marrying someone outside of God's will to begin with and reaping what I had sown. I tried never to play the victim- i think if BOTH people are wanting to be what the Lord teaches us, it will make for a peaceful home. It is really hard to know what to do when children are witnessing rage and behavior that might do them damage. I really don't like talking about this part of my life, but this story reminded me, we did not blame the Anabaptists for their position towards us- we could tell they cared & ot hurt them to tell us. I will never see what they asked of us as spiritual abuse

[Soloist]

One of the pastors and his wife took time out of their Saturday when I called to see if it was possible to talk to them about our pursuit. They were gracious and kind with us and explained that the way they saw it I was in an adulterous marriage because my first husband was still alive even though remarried. If we joined we would have to live in separate housing. This was a difficult decision to consider but we totally understood where they were coming from. My husband was on disability we could not see that the Lord would want us to live separate - but were not sure-

All this to say, I guess for some that could have felt like real rejection and spiritual abuse from a church trying to be harsh with our situation but we did not see it that way and we did not hold it against them at all. We only admired them for their convictions. It was not our place to try to change them nor was it our place to try to make them look bad because they could not welcome us as members as a remarried couple. My husband had not been married before I should say.

My first husband died from his alcoholic liver disease at 57- still, not sure how they would view us since we didn't separate back then, but i don't know what to think of this woman's situation. It took "others" to convince me i was being emotionally abused, I thought I was to blame for marrying someone outside of God's will to begin with and reaping what I had sown. I tried never to play the victim- i think if BOTH people are wanting to be what the Lord teaches us, it will make for a peaceful home. It is really hard to know what to do when children are witnessing rage and behavior that might do them damage. I really don't like talking about this part of my life, but this story reminded me, we did not blame the Anabaptists for their position towards us- we could tell they cared & ot hurt them to tell us. I will never see what they asked of us as spiritual abuse

Rom 7:2  For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3  So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

I would agree with Paul for what it’s worth

[Josh]

If this woman were sincere, she could have filed for a legal separation instead of a divorce. I believe Christians shouldn’t be an aggressor in a lawsuit.

[Valerie]

One of the pastors and his wife took time out of their Saturday when I called to see if it was possible to talk to them about our pursuit. They were gracious and kind with us and explained that the way they saw it I was in an adulterous marriage because my first husband was still alive even though remarried. If we joined we would have to live in separate housing. This was a difficult decision to consider but we totally understood where they were coming from. My husband was on disability we could not see that the Lord would want us to live separate - but were not sure-

All this to say, I guess for some that could have felt like real rejection and spiritual abuse from a church trying to be harsh with our situation but we did not see it that way and we did not hold it against them at all. We only admired them for their convictions. It was not our place to try to change them nor was it our place to try to make them look bad because they could not welcome us as members as a remarried couple. My husband had not been married before I should say.

My first husband died from his alcoholic liver disease at 57- still, not sure how they would view us since we didn't separate back then, but i don't know what to think of this woman's situation. It took "others" to convince me i was being emotionally abused, I thought I was to blame for marrying someone outside of God's will to begin with and reaping what I had sown. I tried never to play the victim- i think if BOTH people are wanting to be what the Lord teaches us, it will make for a peaceful home. It is really hard to know what to do when children are witnessing rage and behavior that might do them damage. I really don't like talking about this part of my life, but this story reminded me, we did not blame the Anabaptists for their position towards us- we could tell they cared & ot hurt them to tell us. I will never see what they asked of us as spiritual abuse

Rom 7:2  For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3  So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

I would agree with Paul for what it’s worth

Thank you, i do too but i thought they might feel like we should have split back then- anyway, my main point in sharing the story is I don't think that the way the Anabaptist convey these things is spiritual abuse. When I did share with those who knew we were seeking it out what happened they thought it was ridiculous but my husband and I did not think that we admired them. What a mess we make of things when we do things outside of God's will

[Josh]

This story doesn’t add up. She paints herself as some sad victim, yet somehow has the resources to (a) get a humanities PhD, which is not cheap, and (b) buy a house in her own name on the spur of the moment. Also not cheap.

She also shows a pattern of continually threatening to leave / leave / going back to the old partner she claims is “abusive”. Ultimately, when one digs deeper into these stories, it often turns out the alleged abusive partner’s behaviour was well known before the marriage and the other partner decides to go along with it anyway.

I checked and this man isn’t convicted of any crime; the worst her allegations would convict him of is being mentally ill. I don’t think people should divorce a mentally ill spouse. If there are genuine “safety” concerns (which she was able to postpone until she got a Ph.D), then she could get a legal separation and still be committed to not throwing her marriage away.

[Neto]

If this woman were sincere, she could have filed for a legal separation instead of a divorce. I believe Christians shouldn’t be an aggressor in a lawsuit.

This was the council given to me (for me to in turn advise a brother whose wife was not faithful, but continued to look to him for affection, ran up large bills, etc) by a Mennonite pastor from Indiana who came to Brazil for a short time. He was not a "Plain" Mennonite, but he was conservative in this particular context. This arrangement would have achieved the pressing needs of this brother, although in the end he decided to divorce her to stop the emotional drain on himself (because he actually still loved her).