Sexual Immorality in 1 Corinthians 5

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Bootstrap
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Re: Sexual Immorality in 1 Corinthians 5

Post by Bootstrap »

Bootstrap wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:52 am Here's the passage: 1 Corinthians 5:1-13.
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
Comparing this to 1 Corinthians 6, I think there are two differences:

1. This sinner is a self-righteous sinner, he is arrogant in his sin, he is quite open about it and delights in it.
2. This is sin that goes beyond what is just normal living in Corinth. Temple prostitution was as normal as rain in Corinth, sleeping with your own mother was not.

I think the self-righteous arrogance is a big part of the equation, though. The Pharisees had sins that were much less outrageous, but packaged in a self-righteousness that made their sins more spiritually dangerous than the sinners they loved to condemn in public to be seen by men.
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Sudsy
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Re: Sexual Immorality in 1 Corinthians 5

Post by Sudsy »

Bootstrap wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:46 am
Bootstrap wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:52 am Here's the passage: 1 Corinthians 5:1-13.
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
Comparing this to 1 Corinthians 6, I think there are two differences:

1. This sinner is a self-righteous sinner, he is arrogant in his sin, he is quite open about it and delights in it.
2. This is sin that goes beyond what is just normal living in Corinth. Temple prostitution was as normal as rain in Corinth, sleeping with your own mother was not.

I think the self-righteous arrogance is a big part of the equation, though. The Pharisees had sins that were much less outrageous, but packaged in a self-righteousness that made their sins more spiritually dangerous than the sinners they loved to condemn in public to be seen by men.
Perhaps we are reading into the text to say the man was 'sleeping with your own mother' ? Some versions use the word 'stepmother'. Why would Paul not just say 'sleeping with your mother' ? Curious.
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nett
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Re: Sexual Immorality in 1 Corinthians 5

Post by nett »

Bootstrap wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:46 am
Bootstrap wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:52 am Here's the passage: 1 Corinthians 5:1-13.
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
Comparing this to 1 Corinthians 6, I think there are two differences:

1. This sinner is a self-righteous sinner, he is arrogant in his sin, he is quite open about it and delights in it.
2. This is sin that goes beyond what is just normal living in Corinth. Temple prostitution was as normal as rain in Corinth, sleeping with your own mother was not.

I think the self-righteous arrogance is a big part of the equation, though. The Pharisees had sins that were much less outrageous, but packaged in a self-righteousness that made their sins more spiritually dangerous than the sinners they loved to condemn in public to be seen by men.
I don't think #2 is obvious from the text. Yes it was a remarkable sin, but I don't that's required for excommunication. Any delight or justification or open sin is grounds.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Sexual Immorality in 1 Corinthians 5

Post by Bootstrap »

Sudsy wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:13 am Perhaps we are reading into the text to say the man was 'sleeping with your own mother' ? Some versions use the word 'stepmother'. Why would Paul not just say 'sleeping with your mother' ? Curious.
Interesting.

Translations seem to say either "his father's wife" or "stepmother".

The most literal reading of ὥστε γυναῖκά τινα τοῦ πατρὸς ἔχειν would call her "his father's wife", but there's apparently good reason to believe that this particular wording refers to this man's stepmother, not his own mother.

1. If he were sleeping with his own mother, that would be even more shocking, you would expect Paul to name that sin clearly.
2. Similar phrasing is used in Leviticus 18:7 and 18:8 in the Septuagint to distinguish (1) sleeping with your mother, from (2) sleeping with one of your father's other wives.

Here's UBS Translator's Guide:
The last part of the verse contains two features in the Greek that a literal translation tends to miss. First, the tense of the verb living with (“have” in Greek) shows that this man was committing sexual immorality continually, not just once. This word can be rendered as “is sleeping with” (TEV|prj:GNTD.1CO.5.1) or “is living with.” These are common English euphemisms or roundabout ways of referring to sexual intercourse. Translators may need to find appropriate euphemisms for sexual intercourse in their own languages.

Second, the Greek expression father's wife almost certainly means the man's stepmother, not his own mother. TEV has translated it in this way (also NJB, REB).

An alternative translation model for this verse is: • Now, it's a fact (or, it's true) that people are telling me that someone in your group is sinning by sleeping with his stepmother. Even people who do not worship the true God don't allow (or, condemn) sin like that.
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