Book about CAM kidnapping

[Grace]

So... in an effort to remain in a neutral standpoint (even though that's not gonna happen here on the forum), we all still buy into the whole "they just walked away and no money was paid" story?

I am not sure where you heard that story, but CAM acknowledged there was ransom paid, just not from them, but from private individuals. The fact ransom was paid, is mentioned several times in the book.

[Sliceitup]

So... in an effort to remain in a neutral standpoint (even though that's not gonna happen here on the forum), we all still buy into the whole "they just walked away and no money was paid" story?

I am not sure where you heard that story, but CAM acknowledged there was ransom paid, just not from them, but from private individuals. The fact ransom was paid, is mentioned several times in the book.

Does it say that it was paid for the entire group, or just for the few that were released earlier?

[steve-in-kville]

So... in an effort to remain in a neutral standpoint (even though that's not gonna happen here on the forum), we all still buy into the whole "they just walked away and no money was paid" story?

I am not sure where you heard that story, but CAM acknowledged there was ransom paid, just not from them, but from private individuals. The fact ransom was paid, is mentioned several times in the book.

Thank you for verifying that.

[Ernie]

Here is what I wrote on the kidnapping thread. 1-2-22

https://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.ph ... 51#p145151

I was able to verify that a ransom was paid to the kidnappers (by an individual or individuals) some days before the second group was released. There was no indication that the kidnappers planned to release any of the hostages after the ransom was paid. Two in the second group were released for medical reasons and it was quite an ordeal to get permission from gang authorities to have a child released at the same time. It was then an additional 10 days until the remaining hostages were able to escape. During those ten days there was again much praying and fasting by the hostages and Christians around the world. Again there was no indication during those ten days that there was any intention of releasing the hostages. All evidence strongly suggests otherwise. This is all that can be said definitively at this time. We don't know exactly what the gang authorities were thinking.
(There are reports that there were significant differences of opinion among the leaders of the gang and that the gang was attempting to use the American hostages as pawns for getting one of their own released from prison. I have not yet been able to verify these reports.)

As different people have noted, the important thing to note is that God rules over the affairs of men, and we can thank Him for the bringing the hostages home safely and that He continues to work on behalf of the Haitian people to bring all people to Himself.

[Grace]

What strikes me as odd on TM's part is her making unverifiable assumptions and claiming them to be facts, when they contradict the hostages stories. She has done so much good work on shedding light on sexual abuse, I am confused why she compromises her integrity in this way. I know she is passionate about her calling in out sexual abuse, but she needs do a better job in keeping her hatred for CAM under wraps. It harms the credibility of her important work.

What are the things she said that were contradicted by hostage stories?

The discrepancy is between the 17 hostages story of escape in the night, and TM's comments of them being released by their captors. She also claims that CAM didn’t mention the ransom issue, but they, in fact did.

She also accuses CAM of not being transparent and being untruthful, because they do not reveal who paid the ransom, how much was paid, and the timeline. But she fails to understand that the ransom was paid by private people, and if those people want to remain anonymous, not have the amounts and the timeline revealed, CAM needs to honor that request.

That aside, I do not want to diminish Trudy's work in being an advocate for the sexually abused. On her behalf she has revealed the horror that was happening in the Jeriah Mast case. And she has been an advocate for many others who were abused. Even though I might not always agree with her tactics, I do not want to discount her work.

[Josh]

So... in an effort to remain in a neutral standpoint (even though that's not gonna happen here on the forum), we all still buy into the whole "they just walked away and no money was paid" story?

Money was certainly paid (but not by CAM) but had no bearing on them getting released or not. At least that's how I understand it.

[Grace]

So... in an effort to remain in a neutral standpoint (even though that's not gonna happen here on the forum), we all still buy into the whole "they just walked away and no money was paid" story?

Money was certainly paid (but not by CAM) but had no bearing on them getting released or not. At least that's how I understand it.

Not according to Trudy. She discounts the Lord's miraculous escape stories from the 17 last hostages, as not miraculous.

Some of Trudy's comments from Facebook.

So how much of a miracle is it when millions are paid?

Multimillion dollar miracle does not equate a miracle. It equates a negotiation of funds in exchange for freedom.

I certainly hope none of the hostages who went through some horrific days, not knowing whether they would be shot and killed, read her comments. They discount the power of the Lord and really diminish the hostages stories.

[Sliceitup]

So... in an effort to remain in a neutral standpoint (even though that's not gonna happen here on the forum), we all still buy into the whole "they just walked away and no money was paid" story?

Money was certainly paid (but not by CAM) but had no bearing on them getting released or not. At least that's how I understand it.

Not according to Trudy. She discounts the Lord's miraculous escape stories from the 17 last hostages, as not miraculous.

Some of Trudy's comments from Facebook.

So how much of a miracle is it when millions are paid?

Multimillion dollar miracle does not equate a miracle. It equates a negotiation of funds in exchange for freedom.

I certainly hope none of the hostages who went through some horrific days, not knowing whether they would be shot and killed, read her comments. They discount the power of the Lord and really diminish the hostages stories.

I think there’s some middle ground to this. Their story is miraculous, even if money was paid. There were many things that could have gone wrong, even with a ransom possibly being paid.

That being said, it would be foolish to not admit how privileged these hostages were in comparison with most other hostages. I think I heard that the FBI had eyes on the hostages for days. Most hostages aren’t going to have the kind of status that will get the US government to hover above them for days on end. Most hostages don’t have the status or connections that enable them to have millions paid in ransom.

The number one thing these hostages had in their favor was their connections to wealth and status. There’s many other hostages in Haiti with a strong faith in God who don’t get those privileges. I don’t think it’s a good look to deny how important that was.

[Josh]

I think there’s some middle ground to this. Their story is miraculous, even if money was paid. There were many things that could have gone wrong, even with a ransom possibly being paid.

That being said, it would be foolish to not admit how privileged these hostages were in comparison with most other hostages. I think I heard that the FBI had eyes on the hostages for days. Most hostages aren’t going to have the kind of status that will get the US government to hover above them for days on end. Most hostages don’t have the status or connections that enable them to have millions paid in ransom.

The number one thing these hostages had in their favor was their connections to wealth and status. There’s many other hostages in Haiti with a strong faith in God who don’t get those privileges. I don’t think it’s a good look to deny how important that was.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Was it a bad thing these hostages got released?

The reaction from Haitians was that they were very glad for all the publicity around the CAM hostages, because it put more light on the overall hostage situation in Haiti as well.

[Josh]

Not according to Trudy. She discounts the Lord's miraculous escape stories from the 17 last hostages, as not miraculous.

Some of Trudy's comments from Facebook.

So how much of a miracle is it when millions are paid?

Multimillion dollar miracle does not equate a miracle. It equates a negotiation of funds in exchange for freedom.

I certainly hope none of the hostages who went through some horrific days, not knowing whether they would be shot and killed, read her comments. They discount the power of the Lord and really diminish the hostages stories.

I really wish she would stay out of speculating about the kidnapping, as it detracts from her credibility. It's just not a profitable line of discourse.

CAM has easily-auditable books (anyone can go and read their financial reports) and it is obvious there was not a million-dollar payoff hidden in there, leaving aside even how absurd it is to think CAM was running around with duffel bags full of currency in Haiti.