The Kingdom Gospel

Place for books, articles, and websites with content that connect or detail Anabaptist theology
silentreader
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by silentreader »

Joy wrote:It is surprising to me how many people have rationalized to the point where they think they have never sinned. Sometimes it is wise to kindly ask if they have ever told a lie, etc. Or not forgiven someone. If they do not see their sin, they see no reason why God would not welcome them into Heaven.

The last lady I dealt with who said she'd never sinned, I returned again and again to visit her, with the same message of sin and need. I admit that I wondered if I was coming on too harshly, although I didn't think so. Then I ran into her daughter, who although she is not a believer as far as I know, told me her mother was grateful for my kindness. But whatever the lady had thought, there is no salvation if we do not admit our sinfulness and need.


Has this truth become 'anathema' to us?
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Sudsy
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by Sudsy »

silentreader wrote:
Joy wrote:It is surprising to me how many people have rationalized to the point where they think they have never sinned. Sometimes it is wise to kindly ask if they have ever told a lie, etc. Or not forgiven someone. If they do not see their sin, they see no reason why God would not welcome them into Heaven.

The last lady I dealt with who said she'd never sinned, I returned again and again to visit her, with the same message of sin and need. I admit that I wondered if I was coming on too harshly, although I didn't think so. Then I ran into her daughter, who although she is not a believer as far as I know, told me her mother was grateful for my kindness. But whatever the lady had thought, there is no salvation if we do not admit our sinfulness and need.


Has this truth become 'anathema' to us?
I haven't run across those who say they don't think they have ever sinned but I do find those who have their own understanding of sin that involves a limited number of transgressions, like murder, adultery, witchcraft, etc. When things like what we think and what we believe we should do at times but don't are sinning, according to the bible, then we must separate ourselves from what the scriptures classify as sinning to be correct. Fact is there is none righteous, no not one. If not sensitive to the Holy Spirit we Christians can become insensitive to the fact we all sin and often willfully.

We sing a song sometimes with words that go 'show us, show us your glory Lord' and I often think of Isaiah when he had a vision of the Lord and said - 'Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.' I think we all would do the same with such a vision. We all continue to fall short (miss the mark, sin) of the glory of God but once saved and being saved we are no longer under the bondage of sin. Jesus will deliver us from any sin.

Man's pride will keep him from believing he needs a Saviour. Only the convicting power of the Holy Spirit will change his thinking and that is one thing the Holy Spirit is here to do. Jesus said this of the Spirit -

[bible]john 16,8 [/bible]
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Adam
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by Adam »

I have been thinking about this question a lot as I recently wrote up a short presentation of the gospel to share with people in Enga, Papua New Guinea (where I work as a missionary). It is hard to move from the "save me" gospel to a Kingdom gospel and then know what to say when you share with people. Ultimately, personal salvation is an important implication of the gospel even though it is not the central focus on the gospel. Anyway, below is what I came up with. It is back-translated into English from Enga, so it may not sound like completely natural English. Constructive criticism is welcome as to how I could better present the gospel in 60-90 seconds with people in Enga (many of whom can't read the Bible for themselves). I realize that a short presentation like this is necessarily incomplete, but I would rather give people something than nothing, and often I don't have time (or the language abilities) for a longer presentation. I think, ultimately, if some aspect of personal salvation is not included, people will struggle to see the relevance to their lives. So for me the key is to combine personal salvation with the idea of being in God's kingdom. Note: this presentation draws heavily on the Christus Victor model of the atonement, and I am not looking to change it to a penal substitution model.

----------

All of us have disregarded the word of God and committed sin. By doing that we were imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom. As we were imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom we were like Satan’s slaves and lived our lives committing sin. As we did that, we became slaves to sin and we were unable to save ourselves. But Jesus took pity on us and, by giving his life, he took our place and redeemed us (bought us back). Although Jesus died and took our place, he did not remain imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom. He defeated Satan, death, and sin, and rose from the dead. When he rose from the dead, God brought him up to heaven. He is there today, sitting at the right hand of God and ruling as king over the Kingdom of God.

The Kingdom of God is not just in heaven, it is on earth as well. If a person repents from the sins that he commits and trusts in Jesus, God will forgive his sins and take him from Satan’s kingdom and place him in the Kingdom of God. If that person faithfully follows all the words of Jesus, then at the time when God judges all people, that person will rise from the grave, go to where God is, reign with Jesus over the Kingdom of God, and live forever. That is God’s good news.

Jesus is calling out to you to come into God’s Kingdom, so will you come? Or will you just remain in Satan’s Kingdom?

[Depending on the answer, I would then say the following:]

If you remain in Satan’s Kingdom, you will die in you sins. If you die in your sins, then when God judges people, you will go to the bad place hell, where the fire never dies. In that place people will be crying and wailing and gnashing their teeth. I don’t want that to happen to you, so I am telling you God’s good news. So let me say again, if you repent and trust in Jesus, you will enter God’s Kingdom.
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Adam
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by Adam »

Below is a short presentation of the Kingdom Gospel that I came across in a book. If anyone is interested in the source, I will share it later.

God's intention at creation was for humanity to benevolently rule the earth. But because Adam and Eve rejected God's command, the Lord chose Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and David to be instruments by which He would establish His own nation through covenant to bless the world and draw humanity to Himself. Because Israel failed in its mandate, Jesus founded a new nation--the church--with Himself as the reigning king to accomplish what Israel did not. Jesus' nation is marked by righteousness and peace. Joining this new nation involves following a radical new "constitution," the covenant of King Jesus, and requires a radical break from one's previous lifestyle. Disciples are baptized into a new social order, the church. Through Jesus' death and resurrection, members of the new nation receive liberation from Satan, forgiveness of sins, the power of the Spirit, and eternal life. The good news of Jesus' reign culminates with His nation emerging victorious, and His citizens being co-regents with Him forever. All other nations and their kings will eventually be conquered, and all will declare that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords.
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Bootstrap
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by Bootstrap »

Adam wrote:God's intention at creation was for humanity to benevolently rule the earth. But because Adam and Eve rejected God's command, the Lord chose Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and David to be instruments by which He would establish His own nation through covenant to bless the world and draw humanity to Himself. Because Israel failed in its mandate, Jesus founded a new nation--the church--with Himself as the reigning king to accomplish what Israel did not. Jesus' nation is marked by righteousness and peace. Joining this new nation involves following a radical new "constitution," the covenant of King Jesus, and requires a radical break from one's previous lifestyle. Disciples are baptized into a new social order, the church. Through Jesus' death and resurrection, members of the new nation receive liberation from Satan, forgiveness of sins, the power of the Spirit, and eternal life. The good news of Jesus' reign culminates with His nation emerging victorious, and His citizens being co-regents with Him forever. All other nations and their kings will eventually be conquered, and all will declare that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords.
I like this, but it's missing some important pieces.

Part of the Kingdom of God is becoming servants to others, loving with the love of Jesus, being his hands and feet on this earth. And it involves rejecting many of the fine things the world has to offer us, choosing not to live for bigger barns and pleasures of the flesh. It also involves a deep trust in God and entrusting ourselves to him, trusting daily in his grace and forgiveness and new revelation to get past our sinfulness and denial. Maybe your source talks about these things as part of the new lifestyle mentioned above, but I think it's important.
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MaxPC
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by MaxPC »

Sudsy wrote: I haven't run across those who say they don't think they have ever sinned but I do find those who have their own understanding of sin that involves a limited number of transgressions, like murder, adultery, witchcraft, etc. When things like what we think and what we believe we should do at times but don't are sinning, according to the bible, then we must separate ourselves from what the scriptures classify as sinning to be correct. Fact is there is none righteous, no not one. If not sensitive to the Holy Spirit we Christians can become insensitive to the fact we all sin and often willfully.

We sing a song sometimes with words that go 'show us, show us your glory Lord' and I often think of Isaiah when he had a vision of the Lord and said - 'Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.' I think we all would do the same with such a vision. We all continue to fall short (miss the mark, sin) of the glory of God but once saved and being saved we are no longer under the bondage of sin. Jesus will deliver us from any sin.

Man's pride will keep him from believing he needs a Saviour. Only the convicting power of the Holy Spirit will change his thinking and that is one thing the Holy Spirit is here to do. Jesus said this of the Spirit -

[bible]john 16,8 [/bible]
Amen. In Catholic World we call it moral relativism: the blurring of lines and too many shades of grey to rationalize away a behavior. There are situations and behaviors that are quite black and white and there are also situations in which not all the facts are known and so we must tread carefully when discerning what a behavior represents. Still, some things are transparent: violent words, anger, backbiting, gossip, viciousness, sarcasm, self-centeredness, gluttony, sloth... so many of these things elicit a shrug instead of repentance in this world.
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Bootstrap
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by Bootstrap »

Adam wrote:I have been thinking about this question a lot as I recently wrote up a short presentation of the gospel to share with people in Enga, Papua New Guinea (where I work as a missionary). It is hard to move from the "save me" gospel to a Kingdom gospel and then know what to say when you share with people. Ultimately, personal salvation is an important implication of the gospel even though it is not the central focus on the gospel. Anyway, below is what I came up with. It is back-translated into English from Enga, so it may not sound like completely natural English.
This is a really good exercise, Adam. We might need to do the same kind of exercise for modern Americans ...

Can you tell me something about the Enga and how they relate to concepts like community, friendship, righteousness, sin, religion, etc? What parts of your presentation are things they can already relate to?
Adam wrote:Note: this presentation draws heavily on the Christus Victor model of the atonement, and I am not looking to change it to a penal substitution model.
I'm convinced no one model is complete, they are all just models of something greater. You say that Jesus "took our place", that's not the only possible model for redemption, and it seems a little like the penal substitution model you want to avoid. For instance, redeeming slaves who could not pay their debts and were sold into slavery is one possible model.
Adam wrote:All of us have disregarded the word of God and committed sin. By doing that we were imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom. As we were imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom we were like Satan’s slaves and lived our lives committing sin. As we did that, we became slaves to sin and we were unable to save ourselves. But Jesus took pity on us and, by giving his life, he took our place and redeemed us (bought us back).
I like the imprisonment image, to me that is closer to the penal substitution model. Another image is enslavement, being slaves to sin, which you also use. Just using the enslavement model is a bit less of a mixed metaphor, and might simplify this. And redemption from slavery feels about right to me, the way you would redeem a slave by paying the price, then set the slave free. Of course, this is a freedom that involves serving God, but you want to be careful to avoid implying that God just bought Satan's slaves to make them his own slaves. (I was just at a Bible translation conference where they were discussing this very issue with respect to translations for the Muslim Middle East ...)

I think it's hard to explain exactly what the death of Jesus accomplished - "when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it's all nonsense", modern Americans, Muslims, and presumably Enga may respond the same way. But the sacrificial giving of himself translates well into many cultures. So does the redemption to freedom. I think it's helpful not to get lost in trying to account for exactly how it all works theologically, and you do well at that.
Adam wrote:Although Jesus died and took our place, he did not remain imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom. He defeated Satan, death, and sin, and rose from the dead. When he rose from the dead, God brought him up to heaven. He is there today, sitting at the right hand of God and ruling as king over the Kingdom of God.
I like this a lot. This would be a good place to say that he is coming again to bring us into his final kingdom at the end of time.
Adam wrote:The Kingdom of God is not just in heaven, it is on earth as well. If a person repents from the sins that he commits and trusts in Jesus, God will forgive his sins and take him from Satan’s kingdom and place him in the Kingdom of God. If that person faithfully follows all the words of Jesus, then at the time when God judges all people, that person will rise from the grave, go to where God is, reign with Jesus over the Kingdom of God, and live forever. That is God’s good news.
I think it's important to bring the Kingdom here on earth into the picture. But I think it's also important to stress a few things about the Kingdom here on earth:
  • It is still incomplete, and longing for the final Kingdom.
  • It's about being servants, being the love of Jesus to the world here, and the opposite of walking in sin is walking in servant love.
  • It's about entrusting ourselves entirely to God, and not living for ourselves, building bigger barns, careers, and status.
  • It's about inviting others into the Kingdom as fellow servants.
Adam wrote:Jesus is calling out to you to come into God’s Kingdom, so will you come? Or will you just remain in Satan’s Kingdom?
Good. But I would also perhaps frame this like joining a team to join God's Kingdom and redeem the world together, fighting Satan's Kingdom.
Adam wrote:[Depending on the answer, I would then say the following:]

If you remain in Satan’s Kingdom, you will die in you sins. If you die in your sins, then when God judges people, you will go to the bad place hell, where the fire never dies. In that place people will be crying and wailing and gnashing their teeth. I don’t want that to happen to you, so I am telling you God’s good news. So let me say again, if you repent and trust in Jesus, you will enter God’s Kingdom.
This is usually said in the 4 spiritual laws approach, but it doesn't seem to be said in many of the presentations of the Gospel in the New Testament. And I'm not sure that the Bible promises that all who do not receive the Gospel will go to hell. I'm honestly not sure one way or another, but I think that God's mercy may be richer than that.

On the other hand, I think the New Testament is quite clear that those who are saved will be in God's eternal Kingdom.
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Neto
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by Neto »

Adam wrote:I have been thinking about this question a lot as I recently wrote up a short presentation of the gospel to share with people in Enga, Papua New Guinea (where I work as a missionary). It is hard to move from the "save me" gospel to a Kingdom gospel and then know what to say when you share with people. Ultimately, personal salvation is an important implication of the gospel even though it is not the central focus on the gospel. Anyway, below is what I came up with. It is back-translated into English from Enga, so it may not sound like completely natural English. Constructive criticism is welcome as to how I could better present the gospel in 60-90 seconds with people in Enga (many of whom can't read the Bible for themselves). I realize that a short presentation like this is necessarily incomplete, but I would rather give people something than nothing, and often I don't have time (or the language abilities) for a longer presentation. I think, ultimately, if some aspect of personal salvation is not included, people will struggle to see the relevance to their lives. So for me the key is to combine personal salvation with the idea of being in God's kingdom. Note: this presentation draws heavily on the Christus Victor model of the atonement, and I am not looking to change it to a penal substitution model.

----------

All of us have disregarded the word of God and committed sin. By doing that we were imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom. As we were imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom we were like Satan’s slaves and lived our lives committing sin. As we did that, we became slaves to sin and we were unable to save ourselves. But Jesus took pity on us and, by giving his life, he took our place and redeemed us (bought us back). Although Jesus died and took our place, he did not remain imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom. He defeated Satan, death, and sin, and rose from the dead. When he rose from the dead, God brought him up to heaven. He is there today, sitting at the right hand of God and ruling as king over the Kingdom of God.

The Kingdom of God is not just in heaven, it is on earth as well. If a person repents from the sins that he commits and trusts in Jesus, God will forgive his sins and take him from Satan’s kingdom and place him in the Kingdom of God. If that person faithfully follows all the words of Jesus, then at the time when God judges all people, that person will rise from the grave, go to where God is, reign with Jesus over the Kingdom of God, and live forever. That is God’s good news.

Jesus is calling out to you to come into God’s Kingdom, so will you come? Or will you just remain in Satan’s Kingdom?

[Depending on the answer, I would then say the following:]

If you remain in Satan’s Kingdom, you will die in you sins. If you die in your sins, then when God judges people, you will go to the bad place hell, where the fire never dies. In that place people will be crying and wailing and gnashing their teeth. I don’t want that to happen to you, so I am telling you God’s good news. So let me say again, if you repent and trust in Jesus, you will enter God’s Kingdom.
Like Boot already said, there are many models used to illustrate the atonement, and none are complete by themselves. (At least I think he was saying all this.... It is unfortunate that people feel they need to 'pick one', in my opinion.) I would personally also put in something about that Jesus restores us into relationship with the Father God, overcoming the estrangement brought about by our rebellion against him.

But my main thought is to wonder if the Enga are familiar with this kind of symbolism, like 'taking our place' (where it does not mean he took our home or our village), and defeating sin & death. The Banawa (where we lived) would never understand a lot of this. It's great if the Enga will - it would just have never communicated what you want it to say where we were. A Brazilian preacher told them that "Jesus died in our place", and that "If you fall you will loose your soul", and what they got out of this was that 'Jesus died in our village", which was really amazing to them, because they would have known about it; and then for the last one, I have to tell a story. One evening at prayer service they prayed fervently for one of the men, who had slipped on a wet log-bridge, and fallen. They were praying that God would find his soul, and bring it back to him. We had been there quite a few years at that point, and I had never heard them talk about soul loss before, so I asked the man who had prayed this to tell me more about it. "Well," he said, "Pastor ____ told us that."

I haven't read in this thread before, so should go back & read it, but regarding admitting to sin, the Banawa seldom admitted to having done any wrong. They freely pointed out the errors of others, but not their own. In fact, I can only think of a single person who I ever heard say "I sinned." And that was actually while we were on a visit back there some years after we moved back to the States.
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Sudsy
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by Sudsy »

Adam wrote:I have been thinking about this question a lot as I recently wrote up a short presentation of the gospel to share with people in Enga, Papua New Guinea (where I work as a missionary). It is hard to move from the "save me" gospel to a Kingdom gospel and then know what to say when you share with people. Ultimately, personal salvation is an important implication of the gospel even though it is not the central focus on the gospel. Anyway, below is what I came up with. It is back-translated into English from Enga, so it may not sound like completely natural English. Constructive criticism is welcome as to how I could better present the gospel in 60-90 seconds with people in Enga (many of whom can't read the Bible for themselves). I realize that a short presentation like this is necessarily incomplete, but I would rather give people something than nothing, and often I don't have time (or the language abilities) for a longer presentation. I think, ultimately, if some aspect of personal salvation is not included, people will struggle to see the relevance to their lives. So for me the key is to combine personal salvation with the idea of being in God's kingdom. Note: this presentation draws heavily on the Christus Victor model of the atonement, and I am not looking to change it to a penal substitution model.

----------
Great thing to work on ! I don't know what these folks have been exposed to regarding Christianity so I'll provided a few questions and comments for consideration. What is often a challenge for some of us is taking Christianeeze lingo and putting it into street talk. I constantly have to work on this. These are some questions that you may or may not get from whoever you talk to.

All of us have disregarded the word of God and committed sin.

First thought 'disregarded what word of God', are you talking about the bible ? Also what is it to commit sin ? What is an example of sin ? Some may need this briefly explained up front.

By doing that we were imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom. As we were imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom we were like Satan’s slaves and lived our lives committing sin. As we did that, we became slaves to sin and we were unable to save ourselves.

'Save ourselves' ? Perhaps - 'unable to overcome sinning. We need someone beyond ourselves to set us free from sins bondage'.

But Jesus took pity on us and, by giving his life, he took our place and redeemed us (bought us back).

Seems like we went from the Christus Victor view of atonement to the Ransom view and I find few understand the Ransom view without an explanation. Why did Jesus have to buy us back ? Perhaps continuing with the victory over sin (sin where is thy sting, where is thy victory) and what Jesus did to set us free from sin's bondage.

Although Jesus died and took our place, he did not remain imprisoned in Satan’s kingdom.

Why did Jesus have to take our place and don't we all die ?

He defeated Satan, death, and sin, and rose from the dead. When he rose from the dead, God brought him up to heaven. He is there today, sitting at the right hand of God and ruling as king over the Kingdom of God.

Like, stays with the Christus Victor view.

The Kingdom of God is not just in heaven, it is on earth as well. If a person repents from the sins that he commits and trusts in Jesus, God will forgive his sins and take him from Satan’s kingdom and place him in the Kingdom of God. If that person faithfully follows all the words of Jesus, then at the time when God judges all people, that person will rise from the grave, go to where God is, reign with Jesus over the Kingdom of God, and live forever. That is God’s good news.

Myself, I prefer to back these statements up with supporting scriptures. They should know that these are not just your opinions but remarks that are based on the bible. That goes for previous remarks also.

Jesus is calling out to you to come into God’s Kingdom, so will you come? Or will you just remain in Satan’s Kingdom?

[Depending on the answer, I would then say the following:]

If you remain in Satan’s Kingdom, you will die in you sins. If you die in your sins, then when God judges people, you will go to the bad place hell, where the fire never dies. In that place people will be crying and wailing and gnashing their teeth. I don’t want that to happen to you, so I am telling you God’s good news. So let me say again, if you repent and trust in Jesus, you will enter God’s Kingdom.

Personally, I do not use the threat of hell fire and unending torture. The reason for this is that there is no example of this in the NT used by the apostles. Fear tactics were not used that I can see although I know many Gospel tracts use them. Suit yourself. I prefer God loves you and wants to give you the gift of eternal life in a beautiful new place He is preparing for those who love Him. God wants you to have this power now to overcome sinning and to get to know Him. Jesus is how we learn about who God is.

You know these people better than I do and try to put yourself into their shoes with what you think they already know about becoming a Christian. I have been surprised how little people know right here in North America about how to be saved from their sins.

God bless you in your witnessing and rely big on the Holy Spirit's guidance. He knows what each heart needs to hear.
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Sudsy
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Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Post by Sudsy »

Adam wrote:Below is a short presentation of the Kingdom Gospel that I came across in a book. If anyone is interested in the source, I will share it later.

God's intention at creation was for humanity to benevolently rule the earth. But because Adam and Eve rejected God's command, the Lord chose Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and David to be instruments by which He would establish His own nation through covenant to bless the world and draw humanity to Himself. Because Israel failed in its mandate, Jesus founded a new nation--the church--with Himself as the reigning king to accomplish what Israel did not. Jesus' nation is marked by righteousness and peace. Joining this new nation involves following a radical new "constitution," the covenant of King Jesus, and requires a radical break from one's previous lifestyle. Disciples are baptized into a new social order, the church. Through Jesus' death and resurrection, members of the new nation receive liberation from Satan, forgiveness of sins, the power of the Spirit, and eternal life. The good news of Jesus' reign culminates with His nation emerging victorious, and His citizens being co-regents with Him forever. All other nations and their kings will eventually be conquered, and all will declare that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords.
One small but imo, important word left out in the outline is 'joy'. Romans 14:17. This is not a life lacking real joy but rather a life that regardless of the battles, it is one of 'unspeakable joy' in the Holy Spirit.
For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
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