Anabaptist Viewpoint

[ohio jones]

the kfw church in Richmond

KFW has churches now? Or do you mean the FOTW church?

[Josh]

the kfw church in Richmond

KFW has churches now? Or do you mean the FOTW church?

Oops. I meant FOTW. At the time, FOTW and KFW were forging ties.

[Heirbyadoption]

We’re also supposed to pray and intercede for Ukrainian freedom fighters and the Israeli government to prevail against “Islam”. It concerns me how readily moderate conservatives just believe whatever the “conservative” right wing media tells them to think.

Josh, I'm curious RE these sort of generalizations that continue to be referenced here on MD, as I have yet to hear this sort of thing from the dozen or so conferences/groups we mingle with and occasionally attend with here in southern PA... Is this perhaps a geographical-specific phenomenon like Holmes County, perhaps, or is there a particular "moderate conservative" group or two which you usually source for these statements?

[Ken]

We’re also supposed to pray and intercede for Ukrainian freedom fighters and the Israeli government to prevail against “Islam”. It concerns me how readily moderate conservatives just believe whatever the “conservative” right wing media tells them to think.

Josh, I'm curious RE these sort of generalizations that continue to be referenced here on MD, as I have yet to hear this sort of thing from the dozen or so conferences/groups we mingle with and occasionally attend with here in southern PA... Is this perhaps a geographical-specific phenomenon like Holmes County, perhaps, or is there a particular "moderate conservative" group or two which you usually source for these statements?

Even overtly political conservative evangelicals like Franklin Graham (who is an overt supporter of Israel and Netanyahu) seem pretty careful to actually publicly pray for peace in Israel rather than military victory.

For example, here he is meeting and praying with Netanyahu: https://www.christianpost.com/news/fran ... nyahu.html

[Josh]

We’re also supposed to pray and intercede for Ukrainian freedom fighters and the Israeli government to prevail against “Islam”. It concerns me how readily moderate conservatives just believe whatever the “conservative” right wing media tells them to think.

Josh, I'm curious RE these sort of generalizations that continue to be referenced here on MD, as I have yet to hear this sort of thing from the dozen or so conferences/groups we mingle with and occasionally attend with here in southern PA... Is this perhaps a geographical-specific phenomenon like Holmes County, perhaps, or is there a particular "moderate conservative" group or two which you usually source for these statements?

I am (obviously) quoting some of the more extreme statements I have heard (albeit some of the above is from someone in quasi-leadership) in various alignments, such as Mid-West. It may be that people aren't terribly comfortable saying some of this stuff around you.

I have noticed that if you have a reputation of being "from the world", people are a lot more open to discuss politics etc. for some reason.

For what it's worth, I've never heard GBs (New Conference) say stuff like the above.

[Heirbyadoption]

It may be that people aren't terribly comfortable saying some of this stuff around you.

I wouldn't be quite that dismissive. It's possible but unlikely. Even mennos tend to speak out of the abundance of the heart after a bit. People's theology has a pretty hard time hiding, especially long term, in places like here in Anabaptist thick, cousin infested, Franklin County. Respectfully, while it certainly doesn't mean there are no folks who pray for the Ukrainians and Israel to triumph though, because obviously there are some, even among conservative Anabaptist, I just get the impression (speaking from my personal fallible opinion) that you may be overgeneralizing a bit in your objection to their position. (shrug emoji), and I'm not entirely convinced (again, just me) that such a thing lends itself to a fair discussion of the subject and context of its presence among conservative Anabaptists... (another shrug emoji)

Anywho, 'nuff said on my part, I suppose.

[NedFlanders]

It may be that people aren't terribly comfortable saying some of this stuff around you.

I wouldn't be quite that dismissive. It's possible but unlikely. Even mennos tend to speak out of the abundance of the heart after a bit. People's theology has a pretty hard time hiding, especially long term, in places like here in Anabaptist thick, cousin infested, Franklin County. Respectfully, while it certainly doesn't mean there are no folks who pray for the Ukrainians and Israel to triumph though, because obviously there are some, even among conservative Anabaptist, I just get the impression (speaking from my personal fallible opinion) that you may be overgeneralizing a bit in your objection to their position. (shrug emoji), and I'm not entirely convinced (again, just me) that such a thing lends itself to a fair discussion of the subject and context of its presence among conservative Anabaptists... (another shrug emoji)

Anywho, 'nuff said on my part, I suppose.

It would be fair to also say though that Anabaptist Viewpoint seems so far detached from an original Anabaptist viewpoint and mischaracterises Anabaptist’s to a point that it really hinders a fair and good discussion.

[Josh]

It may be that people aren't terribly comfortable saying some of this stuff around you.

I wouldn't be quite that dismissive. It's possible but unlikely. Even mennos tend to speak out of the abundance of the heart after a bit. People's theology has a pretty hard time hiding, especially long term, in places like here in Anabaptist thick, cousin infested, Franklin County. Respectfully, while it certainly doesn't mean there are no folks who pray for the Ukrainians and Israel to triumph though, because obviously there are some, even among conservative Anabaptist, I just get the impression (speaking from my personal fallible opinion) that you may be overgeneralizing a bit in your objection to their position. (shrug emoji), and I'm not entirely convinced (again, just me) that such a thing lends itself to a fair discussion of the subject and context of its presence among conservative Anabaptists... (another shrug emoji)

Anywho, 'nuff said on my part, I suppose.

Unfortunately, what I said isn’t hyperbole. Those are actual things I heard or someone I know heard.

For another example, one person had a Trump bumper sticker for the 2020 election… on the car they drove to church. I found this unacceptable, but this is what members in moderate-conservative circles do.

Of course, not all of them of this, but such behaviour is within the bounds of acceptable behaviour. (It is possible the moderate churches I’m familiar with are exceptionally apostate, though.)

For another example, several families have TVs they watch DVDs on. My brother was in one of their homes and observed their TV (covered up with a blanket). They were surprised he noticed it. He then said, well, so and so has a TV, and so does so and so. This family was completely shocked that other church members in good standing had TVs. Of course those two families also kept them somewhat hidden.

The state of things in moderate conservative land is that families have TVs, girls put on pants and Tshirts celebrating Ohio State football and posting such pictures on Facebook during the week, people openly discuss taking firm political stances to the point they think we should pray for Netanyahu to prevail politically (another bizarre one), and yet they also think they are “quite conservative”. Most are shocked to realise other families do the first two things I mentioned.

Needless to say most seekers don’t last in this environment. I didn’t. I moved on to places that had more consistency.

[Judas Maccabeus]

It may be that people aren't terribly comfortable saying some of this stuff around you.

I wouldn't be quite that dismissive. It's possible but unlikely. Even mennos tend to speak out of the abundance of the heart after a bit. People's theology has a pretty hard time hiding, especially long term, in places like here in Anabaptist thick, cousin infested, Franklin County. Respectfully, while it certainly doesn't mean there are no folks who pray for the Ukrainians and Israel to triumph though, because obviously there are some, even among conservative Anabaptist, I just get the impression (speaking from my personal fallible opinion) that you may be overgeneralizing a bit in your objection to their position. (shrug emoji), and I'm not entirely convinced (again, just me) that such a thing lends itself to a fair discussion of the subject and context of its presence among conservative Anabaptists... (another shrug emoji)

Anywho, 'nuff said on my part, I suppose.

Unfortunately, what I said isn’t hyperbole. Those are actual things I heard or someone I know heard.

For another example, one person had a Trump bumper sticker for the 2020 election… on the car they drove to church. I found this unacceptable, but this is what members in moderate-conservative circles do.

Of course, not all of them of this, but such behaviour is within the bounds of acceptable behaviour. (It is possible the moderate churches I’m familiar with are exceptionally apostate, though.)

For another example, several families have TVs they watch DVDs on. My brother was in one of their homes and observed their TV (covered up with a blanket). They were surprised he noticed it. He then said, well, so and so has a TV, and so does so and so. This family was completely shocked that other church members in good standing had TVs. Of course those two families also kept them somewhat hidden.

The state of things in moderate conservative land is that families have TVs, girls put on pants and Tshirts celebrating Ohio State football and posting such pictures on Facebook during the week, people openly discuss taking firm political stances to the point they think we should pray for Netanyahu to prevail politically (another bizarre one), and yet they also think they are “quite conservative”. Most are shocked to realise other families do the first two things I mentioned.

Needless to say most seekers don’t last in this environment. I didn’t. I moved on to places that had more consistency.

I am not seeing this kind of stuff, at least not in my district. However one of the KMF churches just had a split over these sort of issues, with most of the church leaving. Leadership does try to hold the line, because drift, once it gets started is hard to stop.

[Valerie]

It may be that people aren't terribly comfortable saying some of this stuff around you.

I wouldn't be quite that dismissive. It's possible but unlikely. Even mennos tend to speak out of the abundance of the heart after a bit. People's theology has a pretty hard time hiding, especially long term, in places like here in Anabaptist thick, cousin infested, Franklin County. Respectfully, while it certainly doesn't mean there are no folks who pray for the Ukrainians and Israel to triumph though, because obviously there are some, even among conservative Anabaptist, I just get the impression (speaking from my personal fallible opinion) that you may be overgeneralizing a bit in your objection to their position. (shrug emoji), and I'm not entirely convinced (again, just me) that such a thing lends itself to a fair discussion of the subject and context of its presence among conservative Anabaptists... (another shrug emoji)

Anywho, 'nuff said on my part, I suppose.

Unfortunately, what I said isn’t hyperbole. Those are actual things I heard or someone I know heard.

For another example, one person had a Trump bumper sticker for the 2020 election… on the car they drove to church. I found this unacceptable, but this is what members in moderate-conservative circles do.

Of course, not all of them of this, but such behaviour is within the bounds of acceptable behaviour. (It is possible the moderate churches I’m familiar with are exceptionally apostate, though.)

For another example, several families have TVs they watch DVDs on. My brother was in one of their homes and observed their TV (covered up with a blanket). They were surprised he noticed it. He then said, well, so and so has a TV, and so does so and so. This family was completely shocked that other church members in good standing had TVs. Of course those two families also kept them somewhat hidden.

The state of things in moderate conservative land is that families have TVs, girls put on pants and Tshirts celebrating Ohio State football and posting such pictures on Facebook during the week, people openly discuss taking firm political stances to the point they think we should pray for Netanyahu to prevail politically (another bizarre one), and yet they also think they are “quite conservative”. Most are shocked to realise other families do the first two things I mentioned.

Needless to say most seekers don’t last in this environment. I didn’t. I moved on to places that had more consistency.

Moderate conservative land? What about the 2 Trump Amish buggy parades in Fredericksburg OH in 2020? Granted there were few buggies bur I did see obvious Mennos dressed plain with head coverings among the street lined supporters in the videos I saw