Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Place for books, articles, and websites with content that connect or detail Anabaptist theology
Josh
Posts: 1896
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Josh » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:56 pm

Wade wrote:But when our heart is right, will not our actions show that somewhat?


I think this is something to be cautious of - because then we will start to justify our actions as somewhat more righteous than others. I don't think it's scriptural to judge people who say "kids" as less spiritual or having bad hearts.

Incidentally, I have been so judged by someone before. It's not very pleasant to find out there is an entire speech code they expect you to live up to, which you don't even know what it is - and the fact you don't will be taken by them as prima facia evidence that your heart isn't right.
0 x

cmbl
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:07 pm
Affiliation: NMB attends Pilgrim

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby cmbl » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:00 pm

I understand that the discussion has moved past this, but in reference to the issue of scriptural phrases versus theological terminology...
ernie wrote:It seems to me that it is more likely that the church will have a united definition in the future if we use the term Godhead, vs. the term Trinity or God in Three Persons.

It seems to me that it is more likely that the church will have a united definition in the future if we talk about "meet the Lord in the air" then if we use the term "rapture".

I agree with this. As to the issue of "which translation" to use, once the translations get sufficiently literal, I perceive less of a difference between the terms used by different translations than I perceive between any one of the translations and the theological terminology. E.g., the NIV for the "rapture" verse seems pretty similar to the KJV:
NIV wrote:After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

KJV wrote:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And I find both markedly different from "rapture."

I would say the same thing about my two examples from earlier:
cmbl wrote:For example, I've met a man who attends Beachy who says that he is quite careful to use the Biblical terms "Father" "Son of God" "Jesus" "Son of Man" and "Holy Spirit" when talking to his Oneness Pentecostal family. Now in my case, I come from an evangelical Protestant background which shares the CA view on the Trinity, but I might want to use only Biblical terms when talking about things like discipleship, salvation, justification, faith, and works.

For the Beachy man, just replace the 1 Thess. 4 verse and the theological term "rapture", with some verses from John and the theological terms "Modalism" or "Trinity." For my case, just replace 1 Thess. 4 and "rapture" with James 2 and the Protestant theological construct called "active saving faith."

Neto wrote:it is possible to spew out the "Biblically correct" terms all day long, and not know what they mean. (I right away think of stuff like 'propitiation'.)

This issue is also good to keep in mind.
0 x
"The church which holds the correct doctrine of grace has, it is supposed, ipso facto a part in that grace." -Bonhoeffer

ken_sylvania
Posts: 377
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby ken_sylvania » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:29 pm

Josh wrote:How, exactly, does refusing to use the word "kids" build Jesus' kingdom?

Where does the Bible tell us what English words to use? The New Testament is written in Koine Greek, which is was vernacular. It was not written in the respectable, literary language of the time.

What does Colossians 4:5-6 mean to you? How do you go about applying it in your everyday life in a practical way?
0 x

User avatar
lesterb
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: Alberta
Affiliation: Western Fellowship
Contact:

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby lesterb » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:31 pm

Josh wrote:How, exactly, does refusing to use the word "kids" build Jesus' kingdom?

Where does the Bible tell us what English words to use? The New Testament is written in Koine Greek, which is was vernacular. It was not written in the respectable, literary language of the time.

The Bible doesn't tell us what words to use. But it does tell us to reflect the mind of Christ, to avoid all appearance of evil, and to be an example of the believers. Etc.

Jesus related to the dregs of society, and in general they respected Him. I doubt that He swaggered around, trying to imitate their vocabulary, etc. I worked with a man who claimed to be a Christian, and you could have good spiritual conversations with him. But he didn't bother giving thanks for a meal in public (except the time that his wife was along, and even then she had to remind him). And he tried to fit into every crowd he was in, including using vulgar language. I happened to be in a discussion where someone wanted to say some things that he knew I wouldn't approve of. So was my co-worker. The speaker asked me to leave because he didn't want to offend me, and my co-worker protested. He said "I'm a Christian too."

The other fellow looked him in the eye and snorted, saying, "You're different than he is - you don't care."

I'm not bragging, just saying that people get to know where we are even if we never tell them we don't appreciate certain things. I don't know how many times I've had people apologize when they used vulgar language.

I've seen Mennonites make a fool of themselves by trying to imitate the trendy speech of those around them. People see right through that, and they aren't impressed. I'm not talking about a special, spiritual vocabulary. But I don't think we need follow the trail to casualness, whether in dress or in speech.

Col 4:5-6 ESV Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.
2 x
When a man's ways please the LORD, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. (Pro 16:7 ESV)

Ernie
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Cons. Anabaptist
Contact:

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Ernie » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:55 pm

Josh wrote:I think it's negative for our witness to the world if we demand strange ways to speak. Worldly people know what foul language is vs not foul language. But words like "kids" aren't in that.
Ultimately, if we want to use language to separate ourselves, some Anabaptists (a majority in the US, actually) have chosen to do that. I think it's better for us to examine our motives for what we mean to say than how we say it.
It's important not to be expressing hatred, violence, and other things Jesus spoke against. It's much less important what words we use. Jesus himself used word pictures of crude bodily functions when talking about this very thing.

In our church some people say kids, others say children. We don't demand anything from other families.
If our children ever get to the age that they start using the term kids, we will ask them to use the word children because that is our preference. When our children leave home, they will be free to use whatever word they choose. Until then, we have certain values we are trying to promote and cultivate in our home.
I think a church community has the same privilege including asking people to dress "strangely". I put "strangely" in quotes because there was a time in the history of the world that it would not have been strange to wear modest home sewn dresses and use the word children. Why should it be that just because the majority of people decide to stop doing a certain thing that they are the ones who can then dictate what "strange" is? :?
3 x
Corporate worship, mutual aid, fellowship and mutual accountability characterize this community. An individualistic or self centered Anabaptism is a contradiction in terms. - Kevin Daugherty

joshuabgood
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:23 pm
Affiliation: BMA

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby joshuabgood » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:31 pm

The tricky thing is that, as has been noted, language changes. So certain terms that are not found in current translations...could conceivably make their way into new translations. And in such manner a term not "biblical" would then be come biblical. =)
1 x

User avatar
ohio jones
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
Affiliation: CMC

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby ohio jones » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:29 am

joshuabgood wrote:The tricky thing is that, as has been noted, language changes. So certain terms that are not found in current translations...could conceivably make their way into new translations. And in such manner a term not "biblical" would then be come biblical. =)

No kidding.

The Message uses "kids" to refer to children in multiple locations. Just one more reason for some to reject it, I guess, as if another one was needed. But ESV does not use the word "kid" at all, not even to refer to a young animal, and other recent translations use "kid goat" or similar phrases for clarity, recognizing that many readers might otherwise think of a human kid.
0 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong

Bootstrap
Posts: 1439
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Bootstrap » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:40 pm

Wade wrote:What is the biblical term for Individualism?


If we didn't use that term as shorthand, we might have to wrestle with the relationship between the individual, individual discernment, and the group as we see it in the New Testament. And people mean very different things when they say 'individualism', it's a shorthand for various conclusions people have reached.

Wade wrote:Trinity?


Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Wade wrote:Age of accountability?

Wade wrote:Rapture?

Wade wrote:Pietism?


We would probably speak more clearly without these words. The doctrines that are most clearly true can be expressed most directly in biblical language. These other terms are often shorthand for a conclusion that someone reached much later - the kind of conclusion we should always be open to reevaluating in light of Scripture.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

User avatar
JimFoxvog
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:56 pm
Location: Northern Illinois
Affiliation: MCUSA

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby JimFoxvog » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:56 pm

Using scriptural term can help protect us from worldly thinking. The words the world uses often have value connotations that are unbiblical. Think of the different sense you get from LGBTQ(...) or "vile affections", for example. Or compare "friends with benefits" or "fornicators".
2 x

Hats Off
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:42 pm
Affiliation: Plain Menno OO

Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Hats Off » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:39 pm

I catch myself using words like "kids" and "cool" occasionally, but have also been known to advise against those terms. I don't understand why we would want or need to adopt this kind of language.
0 x


Return to “Written Word”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest