Using Scripture's terms and phrases

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Neto
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Neto » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:38 pm

Ernie wrote:
Neto wrote:Only if they eventually come to ascribe to the same definitions for the terms they use, but I'm not sure that happens. Language is a tool to convey meaning, and it seems to me that if we do not ascribe the same meanings to the words we use, then we are not really communicating. Maybe it is due to impatience on my part - I don't want to wait for the next generation to reach understanding.

Not sure how to reply.

It seems to me that it is more likely that the church will have a united definition in the future if we use the term Godhead, vs. the term Trinity or God in Three Persons.

It seems to me that it is more likely that the church will have a united definition in the future if we talk about "meet the Lord in the air" then if we use the term "rapture".

I can agree with avoiding 'Rapture', because of its association with a particular eschatological view (which incidentally I personally consider to be incorrect). I guess that I wouldn't use the term 'Godhead' myself (and certainly not 'Trinity' or 'God in Three Persons'), because I think it goes beyond Scripture. (It seems to imply some sort of conglomerate, is sometimes associated with Mormon teaching in particular, and also with the trinity doctrine in general.)

I have sometimes stated that Jesus is Deity, instead of saying that Jesus is God (although I do think he is), because the word 'God' is used in the English Scripture as both a descriptive term, and also as a proper name, interchangeable with 'God the Father'. My purpose in that is to avoid the confusion of someone thinking that I am saying that Jesus is the Father.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby ken_sylvania » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:05 am

lesterb wrote:So how do you feel about casual language?
............
I told her that serious writing uses serious language, but she couldn't wrap her head around that. Nor could some of the other people who commented.

But I feel that God's word is serious. I think we can explain it in simple terminology without degenerating into degrading terminology. I think most people would understand what I mean if I say young men, or young fellows, just well as young guys. I can remember when gross meant a dozen dozen, not bad tasting food. :-|

I agree. The Bible teaches us to be careful with our speech - to let it be always graceful and well seasoned. Often flamboyant writing targets the emotions rather than the understanding.

I agree with Wade on the use of the word "kids.." "Kids" isn't just another term for "children." It is an informal term, and in a certain sense somewhat disrespectful. Our children are in many cases a reflection of their parents, and if we want them to be respectful to others, a good place to start is to speak respectfully to them and about them.
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Ernie
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Ernie » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:59 am

Neto wrote:I guess that I wouldn't use the term 'Godhead' myself (and certainly not 'Trinity' or 'God in Three Persons'), because I think it goes beyond Scripture.

I looked at how other translations use the word Godhead and they say "divine nature". So you make a good point here.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Bootstrap » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:37 am

Ernie wrote:
Neto wrote:I guess that I wouldn't use the term 'Godhead' myself (and certainly not 'Trinity' or 'God in Three Persons'), because I think it goes beyond Scripture.

I looked at how other translations use the word Godhead and they say "divine nature". So you make a good point here.


Even if we agree to use biblical terms, some terms can be translated more than way, and the differences can make a difference.

Neto wrote:I have sometimes stated that Jesus is Deity, instead of saying that Jesus is God (although I do think he is), because the word 'God' is used in the English Scripture as both a descriptive term, and also as a proper name, interchangeable with 'God the Father'. My purpose in that is to avoid the confusion of someone thinking that I am saying that Jesus is the Father.


I think this is about what you mean by Jesus is God. I don't think you are saying only Jesus is God, because you would also say God the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. And it's also clear that Jesus can ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit, which requires them to be distinct, not just different ways of looking at the same thing. But that's short of the Trinity because it doesn't try to answer the question of how all this works in a way that the human brain can grasp.
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Soloist
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Soloist » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:00 pm

When we first started going to Mennonite churches we assumed that pacifist was the right word so we continually said “We are pacifists now!” Only to be rebuked and told that we were non-resistors and that pacifist was very political. I understand the difference now but most people are very ignorant that they mean two different things. Arguably passive and pacifist likely come from the same base and anyone would say passive is someone who is a floor mat… I still would not object to someone calling themselves a pacifist but I would ask them what exactly they mean so I understand what they think they mean from the term. I find no problem with the action of smuggling Jews or potentially even petitioning the government as some of the elders of the early church did. I would find an issue with lobbyists or joining the political system aka change the government from the inside out.
I can see the objection to the term kids, I personally wouldn’t be bothered by it for most people’s use, but I can see how it could be made offensive. I believe intent is about half the meaning. For example swearing. We can say bad words are swear words but some of them used in the proper situation are not swear words and likewise we can say things like fan or chair and it can be a swear word. The intent is from a carnal mind focused on anger usually. The term goodness for instance, the word can seem harmless but who is good? God alone. The phrase “my …” is and can be very offensive to a believer if they think about it in this light but mean nothing to another. My wife knows of one non-Mennonite who runs a horse camp who had 3 different ladies come up to him one day to tell him what to call their children (the 3 choices being kids, children, and young adults), and complain about them calling their young ones the wrong thing. He asked them what to call their offspring that would please all three of them, and they just said that he should be able to figure it out. Thus, he walked away confused and annoyed.
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Josh
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Josh » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:10 pm

I think it's negative for our witness to the world if we demand strange ways to speak. Worldly people know what foul language is vs not foul language. But words like "kids" aren't in that.

Ultimately, if we want to use language to separate ourselves, some Anabaptists (a majority in the US, actually) have chosen to do that. I think it's better for us to examine our motives for what we mean to say than how we say it.

It's important not to be expressing hatred, violence, and other things Jesus spoke against. It's much less important what words we use. Jesus himself used word pictures of crude bodily functions when talking about this very thing.
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Neto
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Neto » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:17 pm

Josh wrote:I think it's negative for our witness to the world if we demand strange ways to speak. Worldly people know what foul language is vs not foul language. But words like "kids" aren't in that.

Ultimately, if we want to use language to separate ourselves, some Anabaptists (a majority in the US, actually) have chosen to do that. I think it's better for us to examine our motives for what we mean to say than how we say it.

It's important not to be expressing hatred, violence, and other things Jesus spoke against. It's much less important what words we use. Jesus himself used word pictures of crude bodily functions when talking about this very thing.


And make way for Paul....
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lesterb
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby lesterb » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:42 pm

Josh wrote:I think it's negative for our witness to the world if we demand strange ways to speak. Worldly people know what foul language is vs not foul language. But words like "kids" aren't in that.

Ultimately, if we want to use language to separate ourselves, some Anabaptists (a majority in the US, actually) have chosen to do that. I think it's better for us to examine our motives for what we mean to say than how we say it.

It's important not to be expressing hatred, violence, and other things Jesus spoke against. It's much less important what words we use. Jesus himself used word pictures of crude bodily functions when talking about this very thing.

In my mind it isn't just a matter of "separation." I think it is a general deterioration of the English language. The word kids may be fine in a general conversation with a neighbor or co-worker. But it doesn't belong in serious writing, except in conversation.

You're portraying an extreme in you post that I don't support. But I don't think I need to go to the other extreme to avoid that extreme.
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Wade
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Wade » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:45 pm

Josh wrote:I think it's negative for our witness to the world if we demand strange ways to speak. Worldly people know what foul language is vs not foul language. But words like "kids" aren't in that.

Ultimately, if we want to use language to separate ourselves, some Anabaptists (a majority in the US, actually) have chosen to do that. I think it's better for us to examine our motives for what we mean to say than how we say it.

It's important not to be expressing hatred, violence, and other things Jesus spoke against. It's much less important what words we use. Jesus himself used word pictures of crude bodily functions when talking about this very thing.


We have said this to no one about calling children - children. I mention things on here as thought or an idea but not a demand. I assure you we are the only ones around here that don't call our children "kids" and nor do we "correct" anyone.
But yet I will share: people do tell us and notice these little things of respect to living souls and having a grateful attitude in them rather than what can come across as more complacent.
But maybe that is just the attitude or heart rather than specific words that are said. But when our heart is right, will not our actions show that somewhat?
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Josh
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Re: Using Scripture's terms and phrases

Postby Josh » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:52 pm

How, exactly, does refusing to use the word "kids" build Jesus' kingdom?

Where does the Bible tell us what English words to use? The New Testament is written in Koine Greek, which is was vernacular. It was not written in the respectable, literary language of the time.
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