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Excommunication isn’t really about being “kicked out of” the church. It’s rather a recognition that one’s unrepentant sin is so bad, the excommunicant needs a wake up call and must needs work on their problem outside of the church because the church isn’t able to help anymore. The problem is turned over to God and Jesus to deal with (and oddly enough, over to Satan as well).

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:12 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:36 pm Verse two seems to list a number of attributes of the Ephesian church that Christ approved of:

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars

It seems it is in order to not be able to bear unrepentant sinners in the church.

This particular verse is about false apostles. Other groups of particularly dangerous sinners are also mentioned in this passage.

One of these days, I will do a Bible study on what kinds of sin got you kicked out of the NT church and what kind got you pastoral help. I think I have a lot to learn on that subject. Sleeping with your father's wife is clearly enough to get you kicked out. Embracing the deeds of the Nicolaitans is too, whatever that means.

Is there anything in particular that makes you think first part of the verse is also about false apostles? The KJV translation uses a colon to separate the statement about false apostles from the the first part of the verse, which to me suggests that "them which are evil" doesn't specifically refer only to false apostle.

Josh wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:36 pm Excommunication isn’t really about being “kicked out of” the church. It’s rather a recognition that one’s unrepentant sin is so bad, the excommunicant needs a wake up call and must needs work on their problem outside of the church because the church isn’t able to help anymore. The problem is turned over to God and Jesus to deal with (and oddly enough, over to Satan as well).

I agree but I believe it can be done in a hateful manner and not a true loving one. One can hate someone for 'making their church and/or Christianity look bad' and be glad to get rid of them or one can be sorrowful that a sin will not be repented of and be sure they know they are being loved and this is what they believe scripture requires them to do.

I have not been in a church that excommunicated anyone. I think if the concept of shunning is practised very few people would stick around. It would be interesting to me to know what kind of sin requires excommunication in a group of believers and which do not.