The Message - New Age influence

[Szdfan]

Neither analogy works for me. Books aren’t drugs or faulty equipment. Biblical interpretation isn’t like taking drugs or operating heavy machinery. Someone can have all the “correct” resources and still end up with bad theology.

Ideally, we should all be reading Greek and Hebrew and not relying on translations, but that’s not realistic.

And reading translations is fine.

Reading Greek and Hebrew still isn't enough if you don't get the culture and an overview of the Bible. Given a choice, I think most people would be better off watching Bible Project videos rather than try to learn biblical languages, and people who learn biblical languages still need to get this other background, which is more accessible to more people.

Any one Bible translation is not enough. Adding The Message to the mix may be a little like reading a commentary, showing one possible reading of these verses. I generally think most people are better off reading 3 translations that are significantly different. And really, I would much rather see someone read The Message than not read the Bible regularly, if that's the translation that grabs them, and it keeps them engaged, I just hope they recognize what kind of translation it is and what the limitations are.

Translators have resources that outline translation choices, here's an excerpt from Translator's Notes Display, used by SIL - I would love to see something like this available to the general public. I don't think most people have ever translated anything, and they don't know how to think about the choices a translator faces while working on a translation.

I think you're right about all of this. Interpretation is more of an art than a science and really understanding the Scriptures is more like a a spiritual practice than a mechanistic production. This one of the things I appreciated about Peterson's "Eat This Book" -- the encouragement to embrace reading of Scripture.

[Josh]

Does anyone even claim The Message is a translation? The author (whose name is right on the front) says it's more like something halfway between his collected sermon notes, a commentary, and how he would try to retell the stories in the Bible to someone who wasn't familiar with religious or liturgical language.

[Szdfan]

Does anyone even claim The Message is a translation? The author (whose name is right on the front) says it's more like something halfway between his collected sermon notes, a commentary, and how he would try to retell the stories in the Bible to someone who wasn't familiar with religious or liturgical language.

I don't think it's a translation and I agree that Peterson's intentions for it are clearly laid out. But some people still seem to get confused.

[danfreed]

"I think even if the only Bible you have is the message, your better off reading it then not. God can still work through flawed translations. Some inspiring Chinese testimonies come from people who don't have more then a few scraps of the Bible."


I agree, Soloist, because the Bible is God's written word, which leads us to Jesus Christ the "Living Word" who is the One and Only Savior!

I enjoy The Message and find it similar to the Amplified Bible, except more personal. Like sitting down with Pastor Eugene Peterson and asking, "Could you tell me how you would word this passage in today's English?"

I have not noticed "New Age" influence in the Message, however I do not read the Bible attempting to "sniff-out" faults, flaws, translation bias, etc.
I read the Bible looking for Jesus, and for inspiration to live as He would live. I try to learn from the Holy Spirit as I read.

Reading this thread, reminded me of an old hymn "Break Thou the Bread of Life, dear Lord to me..." powerful lyrics and harmony.... Jesus is our life, and without Him, we die. With Him, we win the strife.


My favorite Bible version is the YouVersion app, because I can quickly compare translations, from the old King James (that I heard as a child, and still appreciate), to the New International (which I have read through multiple times), to the newer dynamic translations like NLT, Good News, etc.

All translations are flawed to some extent, because all translators are flawed. But God works through flawed people to share the perfect message of salvation through Jesus ... and calls us to share this Message with others.

Now off to worship and Bible class at North Leo Mennonite Church.... Can't wait to learn more about Jesus!
I want my life to translate Him to others.

[Valerie]

Does anyone even claim The Message is a translation? The author (whose name is right on the front) says it's more like something halfway between his collected sermon notes, a commentary, and how he would try to retell the stories in the Bible to someone who wasn't familiar with religious or liturgical language.

I don't think it's a translation and I agree that Peterson's intentions for it are clearly laid out. But some people still seem to get confused.

Personally, i have felt uncomfortable with "The Message" and when its shared, i tend to see it not as a translation, or "the Bible" but his personal understandings. I tend to gave concerns Truth, specifically, can get lost in opinion, may get watered down, biased, or misinterpreted.

[kendrag]

To the OP, maybe this will shed some light on concerns some have.
Lighthouse Trails Research: https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=16449

[Szdfan]

To the OP, maybe this will shed some light on concerns some have.
Lighthouse Trails Research: https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=16449

None of the concerns or objections in this piece have to do with New Age influence.

[Josh]

There is surprisingly little “New Age” influence, or Wiccan influence, or much of any influence from new religious movements.

That doesn’t stop sensational right-wing clickbait outlets from writing articles about the dire threat of “New Age” or other things that sound scary, but in reality have very little influence. Liberal theology has way way more of an impact than “New Age” spirituality does.

[Signtist]

Could someone read The Message and get saved? I have very little use for discernment ministries such as Lighthouse Trails. It's an excuse for living a harsh, judgemental and extremely critical life. They might do some good, I don't know.

The streets in heaven are paved with gold. Gold has no value to God. It's nothing but pavement. What is valuable to God is the Life of Jesus in a person. If someone has the Life of Jesus inside, who am I to criticize every move they make, everything they say? Exercise wisdom, yes. Build a business on being critical? Seems weird. We've gotten it backwards. We value pavement, and dismiss the true riches in Christ.

[Josh]

Could someone read The Message and get saved? I have very little use for discernment ministries such as Lighthouse Trails. It's an excuse for living a harsh, judgemental and extremely critical life. They might do some good, I don't know.

Reading Bibles doesn't save people. Jesus does. The Bible is not particularly enlightening to the unsaved man who cannot receive its message. It might be part of someone's path to salvation, but then again someone told me a Beatles song was part of their path to salvation (and I believe them). That doesn't mean Beatles albums need to be promoted and translated to hundreds of languages to try to spread the good news.

The streets in heaven are paved with gold. Gold has no value to God. It's nothing but pavement. What is valuable to God is the Life of Jesus in a person. If someone has the Life of Jesus inside, who am I to criticize every move they make, everything they say? Exercise wisdom, yes. Build a business on being critical? Seems weird. We've gotten it backwards. We value pavement, and dismiss the true riches in Christ.

So, there is room for being critical of bad Bible translations. I'm critical of the Book of Mormon, Scofield's Bible commentary, and the Jehovah's Witnesses N.W.T. H.S., for example. The latter is not a good translation. I don't think The Message is a good translation or commentary, either.

But with that said, I don't spend too much time criticising The Message. It's an appropriate topic for an intellectual discussion of quality of translations and commentaries.