The Cruciform Hermeneutic

[Fidelio]

whoops. triple post deleted. Sorry folks, I need to slow down and make sure I hit edit, not quote.

[AnthonyMartin]

John Piper gives his response to a violent God of the OT being a different God of the NT as seen in Jesus. Although Boyd's opinion of God never being a violent God ever it is good to look at other viewpoints.

Here is a critique called - Greg Boyd’s Misunderstandings of the ‘Warrior God’ by Paul Copan which also has some interesting points of view - https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/revi ... greg-boyd/

And John Piper answering a question regarding the violence of God in the OT -


I think the tendency may be for an Anabaptist like Boyd, focusing on Jesus and the church era, to want to somehow prove that God never was anything but a loving, power-surrendering, non-violent God and this view would tend to sit well with Anabaptism. But is he correct ? Or perhaps does God operate through the NT church in a different way then He did before the cross regarding violence ?

I'm not completely comfortable with Piper's initial answer and his seemingly solid foundation in Divine Command Theory. I feel better with his answer to the 2nd question and his take on the church's position outside of politics.

I have also been contemplating whether or not Anabaptists, and especially non-violent apoligetics like Flood and Boyd, perhaps have too temporal a view of violence. Is it possible that violence in a temporary, sin cursed, world look differently from an eternal spiritual perspective than they do from our current physical vantage point. I find this thought a bit depressing as it seems to quickly place all these questions into the "beyond our faculties" category.

[Aaron]

"beyond all of our imaginations" category, yes...... not just beyond our faculties .....

Ephesians 2:3
All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

Ephesians 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

From Biblegateway dot com, many references in many translations searching "wrath"....

The ones perhaps most dire (people on earth have to look forward to ) today :

Revelation 14:10
they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.


Revelation 14:19
The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.


Revelation 15:1
[ Seven Angels With Seven Plagues ] I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed.


Revelation 15:7
Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of God, who lives for ever and ever.


Revelation 16:1
[ The Seven Bowls of God’s Wrath ] Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”


Revelation 16:19
The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath.

[Josh]

Not exactly. He would view God as wearing masks because the free agents He was interacting with were not capable of seeing God for who He actually is.

Or perhaps there was a mask mandate.