The Kingdom Gospel

Place for books, articles, and websites with content that connect or detail Anabaptist theology
Sudsy
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Location: Leamington, Ontario
Affiliation: Mennonite Brethren

Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Postby Sudsy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:42 pm

Wade wrote:The problem is: are they really following Christ? And what do you mean by growth? By numbers or by devotion?
I rather more devotion than more people because really more devotion should lead to bringing in more people, not bringing in more people leading to more devotion...


Growth should include both spiritual growth as well as numerical growth. There seems to be quite a difference in emphasis regarding 'following Christ'. Some are mainly 'following Christ' from a sanctification (separation from the world) emphasis in their own and other believer's lives while others are mainly 'following Christ' from a salvation (regeneration) emphasis more concerned about others outside the church becoming Kingdom citizens. If we don't have both, are we really 'following Christ' ?

Evangelicals often here get criticized for a lack in sanctification (too worldly) whereas most Anabaptists, in our area, are criticized for their lack of concern and efforts to reach the unchurched.

I agree more devotion or obedience to Christ will result in bringing in more people and so if sanctification is where our focus is, is it resulting in more devotional soul winners ?
1 x

Wade
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:09 am
Location: BC
Affiliation: Independent Baptist

Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Postby Wade » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:34 pm

Sudsy wrote:
Wade wrote:The problem is: are they really following Christ? And what do you mean by growth? By numbers or by devotion?
I rather more devotion than more people because really more devotion should lead to bringing in more people, not bringing in more people leading to more devotion...


Growth should include both spiritual growth as well as numerical growth. There seems to be quite a difference in emphasis regarding 'following Christ'. Some are mainly 'following Christ' from a sanctification (separation from the world) emphasis in their own and other believer's lives while others are mainly 'following Christ' from a salvation (regeneration) emphasis more concerned about others outside the church becoming Kingdom citizens. If we don't have both, are we really 'following Christ' ?

Evangelicals often here get criticized for a lack in sanctification (too worldly) whereas most Anabaptists, in our area, are criticized for their lack of concern and efforts to reach the unchurched.

I agree more devotion or obedience to Christ will result in bringing in more people and so if sanctification is where our focus is, is it resulting in more devotional soul winners ?


The Pastor of our Evangelical Church said recently when me and three of my children showed up to knock on doors and hand out Bible's; "It is nice to go with someone."

Others may prefer holding a bunch of events, making coffee cups with our church name on them, and etc. but I don't see those things as Christ's way of reaching out anyway.

And yes I was trying to imply our devotion will lead us to be Christ like in being compassionate for souls to enter the Kingdom.
1 x
"when ye do well,and suffer for it,ye take it patiently,this is acceptable with God..Christ also suffered for us,leaving us an example,that ye should follow his steps:Who did no sin..when he suffered,he threatened not;but committed himself"

Sudsy
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Location: Leamington, Ontario
Affiliation: Mennonite Brethren

Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Postby Sudsy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:32 pm

Wade wrote:
The Pastor of our Evangelical Church said recently when me and three of my children showed up to knock on doors and hand out Bible's; "It is nice to go with someone."

Not sure I understand what you are saying but I do agree that door-to-door evangelism is nice and often quite helpful to go by twos. The JWs and Mormons train their folk and do this. Years ago I was in an Evangelical Baptist church and an older believer would take along a young convert as part of discipleship learning. I have only had two other religious groups show up at my door over many years now and that was a baptist minister working on building a new congregation and another believer giving out invitations to a series of tent meetings.

Others may prefer holding a bunch of events, making coffee cups with our church name on them, and etc. but I don't see those things as Christ's way of reaching out anyway.

Yes, oil changes for single moms, car washes, yard cleanups, etc, etc and often the name of Jesus never comes up. Haven't heard of any conversions that speak of this impacting them although there may be some.

And yes I was trying to imply our devotion will lead us to be Christ like in being compassionate for souls to enter the Kingdom.
0 x

Wade
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:09 am
Location: BC
Affiliation: Independent Baptist

Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Postby Wade » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:04 pm

Sudsy wrote:
Wade wrote:
The Pastor of our Evangelical Church said recently when me and three of my children showed up to knock on doors and hand out Bible's; "It is nice to go with someone."

Not sure I understand what you are saying but I do agree that door-to-door evangelism is nice and often quite helpful to go by twos. The JWs and Mormons train their folk and do this. Years ago I was in an Evangelical Baptist church and an older believer would take along a young convert as part of discipleship learning. I have only had two other religious groups show up at my door over many years now and that was a baptist minister working on building a new congregation and another believer giving out invitations to a series of tent meetings.

Others may prefer holding a bunch of events, making coffee cups with our church name on them, and etc. but I don't see those things as Christ's way of reaching out anyway.

Yes, oil changes for single moms, car washes, yard cleanups, etc, etc and often the name of Jesus never comes up. Haven't heard of any conversions that speak of this impacting them although there may be some.

And yes I was trying to imply our devotion will lead us to be Christ like in being compassionate for souls to enter the Kingdom.


I was sharing that my experience with Evangelical churches is that the Pastor is the main one evangelising. Others randomly do it but would rather go to the ball game... But maybe there are others that are different?
1 x
"when ye do well,and suffer for it,ye take it patiently,this is acceptable with God..Christ also suffered for us,leaving us an example,that ye should follow his steps:Who did no sin..when he suffered,he threatened not;but committed himself"

Josh
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Postby Josh » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:31 pm

I was separated from both God and from my fellow man because I kept doing bad things that hurt other people and hurt myself.

God decided he loved me anyway and he let God’s people be loving and kind towards me. After being around his people, I started to learn how to be loving and kind.

Now he teaches me to be loving and kind even to those who don’t deserve it. Sometimes I mess up and fail, but God still cares about me anyway and he promised to save me to be with him forever. I want everyone else to know he wants to be with them, too.
4 x

Valerie
Posts: 996
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Postby Valerie » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:05 am

Wade wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
Wade wrote:
The Pastor of our Evangelical Church said recently when me and three of my children showed up to knock on doors and hand out Bible's; "It is nice to go with someone."

Not sure I understand what you are saying but I do agree that door-to-door evangelism is nice and often quite helpful to go by twos. The JWs and Mormons train their folk and do this. Years ago I was in an Evangelical Baptist church and an older believer would take along a young convert as part of discipleship learning. I have only had two other religious groups show up at my door over many years now and that was a baptist minister working on building a new congregation and another believer giving out invitations to a series of tent meetings.

Others may prefer holding a bunch of events, making coffee cups with our church name on them, and etc. but I don't see those things as Christ's way of reaching out anyway.

Yes, oil changes for single moms, car washes, yard cleanups, etc, etc and often the name of Jesus never comes up. Haven't heard of any conversions that speak of this impacting them although there may be some.

And yes I was trying to imply our devotion will lead us to be Christ like in being compassionate for souls to enter the Kingdom.


I was sharing that my experience with Evangelical churches is that the Pastor is the main one evangelising. Others randomly do it but would rather go to the ball game... But maybe there are others that are different?


In our experiences in decades of belonging to Pentecostal/Evangelical type of churches, we were strongly encouraged to evangelize, share our faith, serve others, etc- I agree with the point that the 'ball game' seems to important- I feel this is an area that the more Evangelical type of churches need to recognize- we can fill our schedules with too many 'pleasures' that we don't make time to evangelize- however, some people use these same 'outings' to help build relationships with people who don't know Christ- there are many ways to 'evangelize', not always door to door- a lot of people don't like to be interupted at home, find it rude, intrusive, selfish- to 'bother their busy time' or 'family time'. So there doesn't appear to be one way to evangelize. We were always encouraged to pray to be used wherever we are, work, home as neighbors, etc- as I write this I realize I fall so short, the time factor is difficult! An actual evangelist is one of the 'gifts' and one of the callings: Ephesians 4:11
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;”

but we should all be ready to share our faith.. I Love Apostle Paul's approach and wonder how we can best put his (sucessful) approach into practice more?

1 Corinthians 9:
19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

If we truly appreciate what Christ has done for us (and for all!) we will want others to know Him too- and pray for this and to be ready to share-
Evangelicals may have a good or bad reputation from church to church at putting this into practice- I don't think we can judge all churches by our own personal encounters, really- I was led to Christ by people in these churches- who cared, who prayed, who shared- who reached out-
2 x

Wade
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:09 am
Location: BC
Affiliation: Independent Baptist

Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Postby Wade » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:07 am

Valerie wrote:
Wade wrote:
Sudsy wrote:


I was sharing that my experience with Evangelical churches is that the Pastor is the main one evangelising. Others randomly do it but would rather go to the ball game... But maybe there are others that are different?


In our experiences in decades of belonging to Pentecostal/Evangelical type of churches, we were strongly encouraged to evangelize, share our faith, serve others, etc- I agree with the point that the 'ball game' seems to important- I feel this is an area that the more Evangelical type of churches need to recognize- we can fill our schedules with too many 'pleasures' that we don't make time to evangelize- however, some people use these same 'outings' to help build relationships with people who don't know Christ- there are many ways to 'evangelize', not always door to door- a lot of people don't like to be interupted at home, find it rude, intrusive, selfish- to 'bother their busy time' or 'family time'. So there doesn't appear to be one way to evangelize. We were always encouraged to pray to be used wherever we are, work, home as neighbors, etc- as I write this I realize I fall so short, the time factor is difficult! An actual evangelist is one of the 'gifts' and one of the callings: Ephesians 4:11
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;”

but we should all be ready to share our faith.. I Love Apostle Paul's approach and wonder how we can best put his (sucessful) approach into practice more?

1 Corinthians 9:
19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

If we truly appreciate what Christ has done for us (and for all!) we will want others to know Him too- and pray for this and to be ready to share-
Evangelicals may have a good or bad reputation from church to church at putting this into practice- I don't think we can judge all churches by our own personal encounters, really- I was led to Christ by people in these churches- who cared, who prayed, who shared- who reached out-


In being honest, hope I didn't sound judgemental.
I too was lead to the Lord by these people, even if I don't understand them often...
My evangelising happens the most with people I spend the most time with. At work people see me everyday and get a chance to know and trust me and then opportunity opens to talk about deeper and/or personal things, which I connect into spiritual conversation and the kingdom gospel as I felt led.
I'm not sure what they think though or have in mind when they talk to me and then come to a church that is not an Anabaptist church...? :-|
0 x
"when ye do well,and suffer for it,ye take it patiently,this is acceptable with God..Christ also suffered for us,leaving us an example,that ye should follow his steps:Who did no sin..when he suffered,he threatened not;but committed himself"

Sudsy
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Location: Leamington, Ontario
Affiliation: Mennonite Brethren

Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Postby Sudsy » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:55 pm

https://www.9marks.org/article/journalm ... vangelize/

I thought this to be interesting especially point #2 that an evangelist is in with the list of offices in a church. In other words, the role of an evangelist is to equip the saints on how to evangelize.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ Ephesians 4:11,12

So, do we just have basically pastors and teacher roles from this list active today in the 'perfecting of the saints' ? Maybe that is why we are so far from perfection and not growing like we could numerically speaking ? Is someone gifted in evangelism taking on the role of teaching others how to evangelize in our churches so we can grow in that area which we all are called to participate in obedience to Christ ? Thoughts ?

Whoops, moving away from the OP. Can be moved elsewhere if the OP originator wants to.
0 x

Valerie
Posts: 996
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: The Kingdom Gospel

Postby Valerie » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:28 pm

Wade wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Wade wrote:
I was sharing that my experience with Evangelical churches is that the Pastor is the main one evangelising. Others randomly do it but would rather go to the ball game... But maybe there are others that are different?


In our experiences in decades of belonging to Pentecostal/Evangelical type of churches, we were strongly encouraged to evangelize, share our faith, serve others, etc- I agree with the point that the 'ball game' seems to important- I feel this is an area that the more Evangelical type of churches need to recognize- we can fill our schedules with too many 'pleasures' that we don't make time to evangelize- however, some people use these same 'outings' to help build relationships with people who don't know Christ- there are many ways to 'evangelize', not always door to door- a lot of people don't like to be interupted at home, find it rude, intrusive, selfish- to 'bother their busy time' or 'family time'. So there doesn't appear to be one way to evangelize. We were always encouraged to pray to be used wherever we are, work, home as neighbors, etc- as I write this I realize I fall so short, the time factor is difficult! An actual evangelist is one of the 'gifts' and one of the callings: Ephesians 4:11
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;”

but we should all be ready to share our faith.. I Love Apostle Paul's approach and wonder how we can best put his (sucessful) approach into practice more?

1 Corinthians 9:
19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

If we truly appreciate what Christ has done for us (and for all!) we will want others to know Him too- and pray for this and to be ready to share-
Evangelicals may have a good or bad reputation from church to church at putting this into practice- I don't think we can judge all churches by our own personal encounters, really- I was led to Christ by people in these churches- who cared, who prayed, who shared- who reached out-


In being honest, hope I didn't sound judgemental.
I too was lead to the Lord by these people, even if I don't understand them often...
My evangelising happens the most with people I spend the most time with. At work people see me everyday and get a chance to know and trust me and then opportunity opens to talk about deeper and/or personal things, which I connect into spiritual conversation and the kingdom gospel as I felt led.
I'm not sure what they think though or have in mind when they talk to me and then come to a church that is not an Anabaptist church...? :-|


I don't think you sound judgemental Wade- discouraged perhaps? I think when you've been really engrossed in and exposed to, and studying about, and seeking to be- Anabaptist, it's difficult to then go to Evangelical churches because there is a stark difference of many things. I guess what helped me was realizng and keeping in mind, the Church is a hospital for the sick- for the healing of souls, by our Great Physician- many people in these churches come from unchurched backgrounds, dysfunctional homes, worldly environments- not from sheltered Christian environments- most people in the U.S. & Canada, haven't really been exposed to a lot of conservative Anabaptists- we are all sinners, in need of a Savior- when caring about the souls of people, there's something to keep in mind- that it is God who cares more than we do- about them-and He, in reaching those who will respond to His call, is not limited by where we think this church or that church falls short- It is by grace that we are saved, through faith and not of ourselves, lest any man should boast- otherwise, Christ would not have had to die for our sins.
1 Corinthians 3: (as carnal as the Corinthians behaved, they were still considered a body of Christ, growing in their faith, and had spiritual gifts within as well)
1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
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