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Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sat May 13, 2023 8:22 pm
by temporal1
Valerie wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 7:44 pm
Franklin wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 3:51 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 3:01 pm
Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through Me.
I asked a Muslim about this passage and he said that it was true when Jesus said it because at that time Jesus was the last prophet, but that once Muhammad came, he offered an alternative. Obviously Christians disagree, but my point again is that Muslims aren't that far from real Christians.
I was reading the New Testament today and the parable of the two sons in Matthew 21:28-32 seems relevant to this thread. Protestants are like the second son.
I don't know if you watched the message from this former Muslim. I think he would completely disagree with your statement. And he lived it. You have not. And I've heard the testimony of many of former Muslim and I can't imagine they would agree with your statement. At all.
I could post many testimonies of former Muslims who "actually" know the difference
Here's this man's message without the Church service:
https:
Valerie, i sense a similar reaction when i listen to former Jews who have converted to Christianity.
There is something specially intriguing about their insights+experiences that seem impossible to well understand without their first-person experiences. It’s not comparable to lukewarm or misguided protestants, or other Christians. It’s something “yet again,” for lack of better words.
Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sat May 13, 2023 8:52 pm
by Franklin
Valerie wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 7:44 pm
I don't know if you watched the message from this former Muslim. I think he would completely disagree with your statement. And he lived it. You have not. And I've heard the testimony of many of former Muslim and I can't imagine they would agree with your statement. At all.
I did, and I just watched it again. So depressing. I feel so sorry for his father. Modern Protestantism is the worst religion in the world, worse than Satanism in my opinion. It is entirely fake, which I guess makes it a good fit for modern American culture which is the most fake culture in the world.
I doubt this guy had much understanding of Islam. He probably just wanted to fit into American culture which helped push his conversion. He has succeeded in becoming 100% culturally American, which is also a horrible thing in my opinion.
For me, Mennonites are a refuge from horrors like this. Both Mennonites and religious Muslims are sincere people whose behavior reflects their beliefs.
Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sat May 13, 2023 11:09 pm
by Valerie
Franklin wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:52 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 7:44 pm
I don't know if you watched the message from this former Muslim. I think he would completely disagree with your statement. And he lived it. You have not. And I've heard the testimony of many of former Muslim and I can't imagine they would agree with your statement. At all.
I did, and I just watched it again. So depressing. I feel so sorry for his father. Modern Protestantism is the worst religion in the world, worse than Satanism in my opinion. It is entirely fake, which I guess makes it a good fit for modern American culture which is the most fake culture in the world.
I doubt this guy had much understanding of Islam. He probably just wanted to fit into American culture which helped push his conversion. He has succeeded in becoming 100% culturally American, which is also a horrible thing in my opinion.
For me, Mennonites are a refuge from horrors like this. Both Mennonites and religious Muslims are sincere people whose behavior reflects their beliefs.
So what stops tou from becoming Muslim or Mennonite?
We met Amish ar our Church last week who told us this mans story meant a lot ro them.
All depends on tour understanding
Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 8:02 am
by Josh
Valerie wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 11:09 pm
So what stops tou from becoming Muslim or Mennonite?
We met Amish ar our Church last week who told us this mans story meant a lot ro them.
All depends on tour understanding
Valerie,
“Amish” who are attending a generic evangelical megachurch that teaches against nonresistance are not representative at all of Amish as a whole. I wish you’d quit using anecodotes about them as if it somehow represents what plain people think.
Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 9:52 am
by RZehr
Josh wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 8:02 am
Valerie wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 11:09 pm
So what stops tou from becoming Muslim or Mennonite?
We met Amish ar our Church last week who told us this mans story meant a lot ro them.
All depends on tour understanding
Valerie,
“Amish” who are attending a generic evangelical megachurch that teaches against nonresistance are not representative at all of Amish as a whole. I wish you’d quit using anecodotes about them as if it somehow represents what plain people think.
I do too. Valerie, the Amish and Mennonites attending your church are viewed by the other Amish and Mennonites as backsliding and becoming worldly, and they are prayed for because of this. They are out of fellowship with their conservative churches. Why they would be looked upon as representatives of the church they left, is odd.
Absolutely they have a perspective. But the fact that they’ve left for a worldly liberal church, is evidence that they do not think or believe as the church they left.
Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 12:36 pm
by Franklin
Valerie wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 11:09 pm
So what stops tou from becoming Muslim or Mennonite?
I was raised atheist and I don't like the idea of miracles. I relate far more to the Old Testament than to the New Testament or Quran. I actually asked the expert on Islam at my local mosque if I should become Muslim and he said no. He understands me well enough to realize that I am not compatible with such a religion.
Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 4:45 pm
by Valerie
RZehr wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 9:52 am
Josh wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 8:02 am
Valerie wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 11:09 pm
So what stops tou from becoming Muslim or Mennonite?
We met Amish ar our Church last week who told us this mans story meant a lot ro them.
All depends on tour understanding
Valerie,
“Amish” who are attending a generic evangelical megachurch that teaches against nonresistance are not representative at all of Amish as a whole. I wish you’d quit using anecodotes about them as if it somehow represents what plain people think.
I do too. Valerie, the Amish and Mennonites attending your church are viewed by the other Amish and Mennonites as backsliding and becoming worldly, and they are prayed for because of this. They are out of fellowship with their conservative churches. Why they would be looked upon as representatives of the church they left, is odd.
Absolutely they have a perspective. But the fact that they’ve left for a worldly liberal church, is evidence that they do not think or believe as the church they left.
This topic was about the sermon & testimony of a man lost in Islam who counted the cost to follow Jesus, and followed Him. I'm not sure if you listened to his sermon but even if you did all you could think about is that he's not Mennonite or Amish or Hutterite or Brethren and care or seemingly care nothing about the fact that he gave his life to Christ and helps others to do the same.
Satan would hate his testimony, but Christ gave His life for this man, and He is giving his life for Christ. It cost him. Y'all may hate my Church but i have no doubt many have come to Christ there.
And yes, many Amish feel their Church's are not "right", I've talked to many Amish or former Amish and depending on what their church was like because they're not all the same, or do not agree agree with the interpretations and extra biblical rules, they have found joy in Christ.
When you say they teach against non- resistance, i don't hear that. Although I admire the Anabaptist a great deal I do not think they're infallible at interpreting scripture, and they are not all in agreement with each other in interpretation. Some seem to allow divorce and remarriage. But there are different denominations within the Anabaptist s so try not to be so judgemental
Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 4:56 pm
by Josh
Alistair Begg and Reformed Baptists (or whatever denomination he is) certainly teach against nonresistance and teach that Christians can and should be in the military, vote, serve as police officers, serve on juries, and run for and hold public office. That puts them at odds with historic Anabaptist and historic early Christian teaching.
I have nothing personal against such people but I believe they are missing a lot of sound doctrine.
Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 5:49 pm
by RZehr
Valerie wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 4:45 pm
RZehr wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 9:52 am
Josh wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 8:02 am
Valerie,
“Amish” who are attending a generic evangelical megachurch that teaches against nonresistance are not representative at all of Amish as a whole. I wish you’d quit using anecodotes about them as if it somehow represents what plain people think.
I do too. Valerie, the Amish and Mennonites attending your church are viewed by the other Amish and Mennonites as backsliding and becoming worldly, and they are prayed for because of this. They are out of fellowship with their conservative churches. Why they would be looked upon as representatives of the church they left, is odd.
Absolutely they have a perspective. But the fact that they’ve left for a worldly liberal church, is evidence that they do not think or believe as the church they left.
This topic was about the sermon & testimony of a man lost in Islam who counted the cost to follow Jesus, and followed Him. I'm not sure if you listened to his sermon but even if you did all you could think about is that he's not Mennonite or Amish or Hutterite or Brethren and care or seemingly care nothing about the fact that he gave his life to Christ and helps others to do the same.
Satan would hate his testimony, but Christ gave His life for this man, and He is giving his life for Christ. It cost him. Y'all may hate my Church but i have no doubt many have come to Christ there.
And yes, many Amish feel their Church's are not "right", I've talked to many Amish or former Amish and depending on what their church was like because they're not all the same, or do not agree agree with the interpretations and extra biblical rules, they have found joy in Christ.
When you say they teach against non- resistance, i don't hear that. Although I admire the Anabaptist a great deal I do not think they're infallible at interpreting scripture, and they are not all in agreement with each other in interpretation. Some seem to allow divorce and remarriage. But there are different denominations within the Anabaptist s so try not to be so judgemental
I did not listen to the video. And I’m not commenting at all on it.
I’m strictly referring to the way that I think you very frequently seem to mention Amish as some sort of trump card, or as an appeal to authority, on this forum. As a rule of thumb, I don’t consider what ex-Amish or ex-Mennonites believe and say as authoritative simply by virtue of who they used to be. But I am predisposed to taking what they say with a heavy dose of skepticism, depending on the topic, because I already know that they and I disagree on things that are important enough to be out of fellowship on.
Re: Former Muslims Message & Plea
Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 6:13 pm
by Josh
I have likewise learned that ex-Catholic people aren’t the best sources to learn about Catholic practice from. (Growing up this is all I was exposed to and I ended up having distorted ideas of how Catholic people live.)