A reply regarding question of "Holy Tradition'

[Sudsy]

Valerie, I'm curious as to what you think about the 7 books of the OT, the apocrypha (the 'longer canon'), that Protestants and others believe are not inspired books as the 66 other books are inspired ? I'm not that familiar with many Orthodox beliefs but beliefs such as praying and paying for the dead; paying alms for one's sin while still alive; the dead can pray to God; etc, are beliefs based on the apocrypha books.

[Soloist]

Valerie, I'm curious as to what you think about the 7 books of the OT, the apocrypha (the 'longer canon'), that Protestants and others believe are not inspired books as the 66 other books are inspired ? I'm not that familiar with many Orthodox beliefs but beliefs such as praying and paying for the dead; paying alms for one's sin while still alive; the dead can pray to God; etc, are beliefs based on the apocrypha books.

Feel free to quote those section’s. I personally haven’t seen it.

[Sudsy]

Valerie, I'm curious as to what you think about the 7 books of the OT, the apocrypha (the 'longer canon'), that Protestants and others believe are not inspired books as the 66 other books are inspired ? I'm not that familiar with many Orthodox beliefs but beliefs such as praying and paying for the dead; paying alms for one's sin while still alive; the dead can pray to God; etc, are beliefs based on the apocrypha books.

Feel free to quote those section’s. I personally haven’t seen it.

For an example- Judas Maccabaeus offered sacrifices and prayers for his fallen soldiers with the future resurrection of the dead in mind. As he said: “It is therefore a good and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, so they may be set loose from their sins” (2 Maccabees 12:39-46). - https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/prayer-for-the-dead/

I haven't studied just what all beliefs that the Orthodox have that are different from Anabaptists using the apocrypha books but beliefs such as purgatory are to my knowledge been said to originate from the apocrypha.

I just have reservations about putting my faith in any group, including Anabaptists of any sort to be at rest to think any Christian group has all the truths about God and doctrine. To seek for such a group, to me, is chasing the wind. I have participated in a few different Christian groups and believe they all have their errors of sorts. Imo, the Church without spot or wrinkle is the Church that only God knows and who He has made pure through Jesus work at Calvary.

[Soloist]

I don’t know why he collected a sin offering for those that were dead. First read I assumed he was asking for atonement for the nation. And he might have been doing that, The wording is a little bit strained in English I would want someone that could read Hebrew to tell me what it actually said. I’ll ask my friend and see what he has to say. As far as it goes in the New Testament, they baptized for the dead which was a practice that was neither endorsed or condemned. And sometimes you’ll hear the expression “may God have mercy on their soul”

[Valerie]

Valerie, I'm curious as to what you think about the 7 books of the OT, the apocrypha (the 'longer canon'), that Protestants and others believe are not inspired books as the 66 other books are inspired ? I'm not that familiar with many Orthodox beliefs but beliefs such as praying and paying for the dead; paying alms for one's sin while still alive; the dead can pray to God; etc, are beliefs based on the apocrypha books.

Feel free to quote those section’s. I personally haven’t seen it.

For an example- Judas Maccabaeus offered sacrifices and prayers for his fallen soldiers with the future resurrection of the dead in mind. As he said: “It is therefore a good and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, so they may be set loose from their sins” (2 Maccabees 12:39-46). - https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/prayer-for-the-dead/

I haven't studied just what all beliefs that the Orthodox have that are different from Anabaptists using the apocrypha books but beliefs such as purgatory are to my knowledge been said to originate from the apocrypha.

I just have reservations about putting my faith in any group, including Anabaptists of any sort to be at rest to think any Christian group has all the truths about God and doctrine. To seek for such a group, to me, is chasing the wind. I have participated in a few different Christian groups and believe they all have their errors of sorts. Imo, the Church without spot or wrinkle is the Church that only God knows and who He has made pure through Jesus work at Calvary.

Well i trust the Holy Spirit to jave guided the Church from its beginning simply because of Jesus own words. Certainly the VAST differences in interpretations came due to the Reformation which happened in the West not in the eastern part of Christianity.

Just for some clarification the Eastern Orthodox do not hold to the doctrine of purgatory that was a later invention of the Roman Catholics.

Having the apocrypha books have given much understanding to help with the doctrines the EOs hold to, & i used to have the same objections before learning from these. By the way i know at least some orders of Amish have the apocrypha books in their Bibles. I had read an old order Amish man who produces a publication called the vendor and he wrote two articles defending the Apocrypha books. We also read a devotional put out by the Amish where they have quoted from the Wisdom of Sirach which is an apocrypha book. The New Testament is identical

[Valerie]

I don’t know why he collected a sin offering for those that were dead. First read I assumed he was asking for atonement for the nation. And he might have been doing that, The wording is a little bit strained in English I would want someone that could read Hebrew to tell me what it actually said. I’ll ask my friend and see what he has to say. As far as it goes in the New Testament, they baptized for the dead which was a practice that was neither endorsed or condemned. And sometimes you’ll hear the expression “may God have mercy on their soul”

The pray God will have mercy on their soul because Judgement Day has not actually happened yet so they pray for God's mercy because God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and by their prayers He just may. Remember that the spirits of Jasmine made perfect are believed to be alive all spirits are alive in one place or another after their bodies have gone to sleep.

Another thing, in the early days of the church under the persecution and the catacombs there are writings from the saints of prayers to those that have gone on before them so apparently in the early church they believed that the spirits of just men made perfect could hear their prayers to intercede for them to God

[Sudsy]

So Valerie, have you now joined (whatever that requires I don't know) the Orthodox church and attend it and if not, do they have beliefs (I.e. salvation of the non-Othodox) regarding who can be saved outside their beliefs ?

Last I recall you were attending Alistair Begg's church which would not be Orthodox in various beliefs.

I am curious on whether or not you have any belief that after a person dies, who has not 'accepted Christ' in this life, can be saved by some other means such as others praying them into the Kingdom ? A strong belief by Evangelicals and others is that becoming saved from hell must be decided by each individual now in this life which is believed to have strong NT scriptural support.

It is an interesting belief to believe that we who are still alive can somehow influence God to have mercy on someone who died as an unbeliever or not belonging to the 'right or true church' to still save them. I would love to think this possible but the NT seems to strongly indicate this is not possible. My background, as you know, is being raised in a home with hell fire preaching parents. Yet scripture says God's mercy endures forever and just how forever, forever is, is understood differently by Christians too. Some believe it means 'forever until' something else is allowed to occur.

Well, this can lead to lots of discussion so I'll end here as I have an errand to run. Have a nice day !