the mark of the beast

[gcdonner]

Hieromartyr Antipas, Bishop of Pergamum and Disciple of Saint John the Theologian
Commemorated on April 11

Troparion & Kontakion

The Hieromartyr Antipas, a disciple of the holy Apostle John the Theologian (September 26), was bishop of the Church of Pergamum during the reign of the emperor Nero (54-68).

During these times, everyone who would not offer sacrifice to the idols lived under threat of either exile or execution by order of the emperor. On the island of Patmos (in the Aegean Sea) the holy Apostle John the Theologian was imprisoned, he to whom the Lord revealed the future judgment of the world and of Holy Church.

“And to the angel of the Church of Pergamum write: the words of him who has the sharp two-edged sword. I know where you live, where the throne of Satan is, and you cleave unto My Name, and have not renounced My faith, even in those days when Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells” (Rev 2:12-13).

By his personal example, firm faith and constant preaching about Christ, Saint Antipas began to turn the people of Pergamum from offering sacrifice to idols. The pagan priests reproached the bishop for leading the people away from their ancestral gods, and they demanded that he stop preaching about Christ and offer sacrifice to the idols instead.

Saint Antipas calmly answered that he was not about to serve the demons that fled from him, a mere mortal. He said he worshiped the Lord Almighty, and he would continue to worship the Creator of all, with His Only-Begotten Son, and the Holy Spirit. The pagan priests retorted that their gods existed from of old, whereas Christ was not from of old but was crucified under Pontius Pilate as a criminal. The saint replied that the pagan gods were the work of human hands and that everything said about them was filled with iniquities and vices. He steadfastly confessed his faith in the Son of God, incarnate of the Most Holy Virgin.

The enraged pagan priests dragged the Hieromartyr Antipas to the temple of Artemis and threw him into a red-hot copper bull, where usually they put the sacrifices to the idols. In the red-hot furnace the martyr prayed loudly to God, imploring Him to receive his soul and to strengthen the faith of the Christians. He went to the Lord peacefully, as if he were going to sleep (+ ca. 68).
(Orthodox Church in America)

Hmmm. My Orthodox Study Bible says 92 AD. I will have to find out the discrepancy reason. Their Pascha (Easter) celebration is actually today, May 2 so i won't ask today why Orthodox Church of America differs..
But the Church by the time she Canonized the Scriptures, was still looking for the Second Advent of Christ to come, as stated in the Nicene Creed. With Apostolic succession, there were no accounts that Christ had come, and most believe Revelation was written much later, which only matters if you're belief is He had already returned

So what you are telling me is that you believe that the Orthodox Study Bible is inspired in it's entirety, including the study notes? That's like appealing to the notes in a Scofield Reference Bible, IMO.

Silence is not the same as non-occurrence. And you are assuming that the second coming fits your imagined happenstance. Those who follow the A-millennial viewpoint believe in partial preterism, believing that Jesus came in judgment on the OC system in AD70, while yet expecting another coming at the end of time.

While Christ may come again at any time, He is Divine after all, I don't believe He has revealed it to the church, at least in holy script.

[Valerie]

Hieromartyr Antipas, Bishop of Pergamum and Disciple of Saint John the Theologian
Commemorated on April 11

Troparion & Kontakion

The Hieromartyr Antipas, a disciple of the holy Apostle John the Theologian (September 26), was bishop of the Church of Pergamum during the reign of the emperor Nero (54-68).

During these times, everyone who would not offer sacrifice to the idols lived under threat of either exile or execution by order of the emperor. On the island of Patmos (in the Aegean Sea) the holy Apostle John the Theologian was imprisoned, he to whom the Lord revealed the future judgment of the world and of Holy Church.

“And to the angel of the Church of Pergamum write: the words of him who has the sharp two-edged sword. I know where you live, where the throne of Satan is, and you cleave unto My Name, and have not renounced My faith, even in those days when Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells” (Rev 2:12-13).

By his personal example, firm faith and constant preaching about Christ, Saint Antipas began to turn the people of Pergamum from offering sacrifice to idols. The pagan priests reproached the bishop for leading the people away from their ancestral gods, and they demanded that he stop preaching about Christ and offer sacrifice to the idols instead.

Saint Antipas calmly answered that he was not about to serve the demons that fled from him, a mere mortal. He said he worshiped the Lord Almighty, and he would continue to worship the Creator of all, with His Only-Begotten Son, and the Holy Spirit. The pagan priests retorted that their gods existed from of old, whereas Christ was not from of old but was crucified under Pontius Pilate as a criminal. The saint replied that the pagan gods were the work of human hands and that everything said about them was filled with iniquities and vices. He steadfastly confessed his faith in the Son of God, incarnate of the Most Holy Virgin.

The enraged pagan priests dragged the Hieromartyr Antipas to the temple of Artemis and threw him into a red-hot copper bull, where usually they put the sacrifices to the idols. In the red-hot furnace the martyr prayed loudly to God, imploring Him to receive his soul and to strengthen the faith of the Christians. He went to the Lord peacefully, as if he were going to sleep (+ ca. 68).
(Orthodox Church in America)

Hmmm. My Orthodox Study Bible says 92 AD. I will have to find out the discrepancy reason. Their Pascha (Easter) celebration is actually today, May 2 so i won't ask today why Orthodox Church of America differs..
But the Church by the time she Canonized the Scriptures, was still looking for the Second Advent of Christ to come, as stated in the Nicene Creed. With Apostolic succession, there were no accounts that Christ had come, and most believe Revelation was written much later, which only matters if you're belief is He had already returned

So what you are telling me is that you believe that the Orthodox Study Bible is inspired in it's entirety, including the study notes? That's like appealing to the notes in a Scofield Reference Bible, IMO.

Silence is not the same as non-occurrence. And you are assuming that the second coming fits your imagined happenstance. Those who follow the A-millennial viewpoint believe in partial preterism, believing that Jesus came in judgment on the OC system in AD70, while yet expecting another coming at the end of time.

While Christ may come again at any time, He is Divine after all, I don't believe He has revealed it to the church, at least in holy script.

Virtually everything i looked up puts Antipas death at 92 AD. The Orthodox Study Bibles uses Church history to fill in blanks. It is not "my" imagined happenstance that awaits Christ Second Coming - you're in the great minority believing His second Advent happened as you claim.

Its futile to wrangle about this here. You feel your looked down on for your view, but its probably more to do with insisting on it that you "feel" looked down on because most haven't been convinced.v

[gcdonner]

As the old song says, ♫And we'll understand it better by and by.♫
BTW, Jesus didn't preach to the majority, and by all accounts, the majority aren't going to make it into heaven.

[Outsider]

Plus revelation being written after the destruction of the temple.

Apparently I missed that last part... Why would it be thought that revelation was wrote after?

Because of it's mention of the martyrdom of Antipas, which the histories put at 92 AD- 22 years after the temple.

[Outsider]

As the old song says, ♫And we'll understand it better by and by.♫
BTW, Jesus didn't preach to the majority, and by all accounts, the majority aren't going to make it into heaven.

If it were commonly held in the early church that Christ had "come again" with the destruction of the temple- why isn't this belief reported by the 1st and 2nd century "church fathers" who were contemporaneous with and often direct disciples of the Apostles? Why are we cautioned, both by Christ and the Apostles, to not believe people who say he has come? And who is the Great Whore, Mother of Harlots, who rides on the back of the seven-headed beast?

[Outsider]

You also mentioned in an earlier reply, G.C., that the Jews missed Jesus coming the first time around. This is true- but it was also prophecied. "The very stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone".

There was no prophecy that anyone should miss the second coming, and "Surely the Lord God does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets."

[gcdonner]

You also mentioned in an earlier reply, G.C., that the Jews missed Jesus coming the first time around. This is true- but it was also prophecied. "The very stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone".

There was no prophecy that anyone should miss the second coming, and "Surely the Lord God does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets."

The nature of his coming is what has been misunderstood, and indeed, even Paul warned the people in Thessalonica, the same as Jesus did, to "watch and pray". The second century church was made up of Gentiles who rejected the Jews and even became quite ant-Semitic. This was to their disadvantage, the same for many today who don't understand the present role of the Jews in God's plan. It's not hard to miss something you don't understand. The present day Jews are not the chosen people, unless they are in Christ, yet large portions of the church still hold them up, even in their predominantly atheistic attitudes.
Jesus plainly said

Mat 24:34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 

Mat_16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mar_9:1  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Luk_9:27  But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Either Jesus was right or he was a false prophet. I suggest he was right, but we have misunderstood what the coming in his kingdom/power was all about. I suggest it was the coming of the NC in it's fulness and the end of the OC as the writer to the Hebrews testified

Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. 

And as Peter prophesied shortly before it all happened:

1Pe 4:7  But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. 

And finally as Jesus himself testified several times in the Revelation.
Rev_2:5  Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev_2:16  Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev_3:11  Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev_22:7  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
20  He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

He didn't have 2000+ years in mind when he said it.

BTW, there are those of the early church who did understand that Jesus came when he said he would, in the way he said he would.
Eusebius Pamphilia, who is responsible for the first know church history, written in the 4th century and who was a member of the Council of Nicea, wrote on the second coming in his treatise entitled "Theophania". Chapter 4 is most instructive.

[gcdonner]

As the old song says, ♫And we'll understand it better by and by.♫
BTW, Jesus didn't preach to the majority, and by all accounts, the majority aren't going to make it into heaven.

If it were commonly held in the early church that Christ had "come again" with the destruction of the temple- why isn't this belief reported by the 1st and 2nd century "church fathers" who were contemporaneous with and often direct disciples of the Apostles? Why are we cautioned, both by Christ and the Apostles, to not believe people who say he has come? And who is the Great Whore, Mother of Harlots, who rides on the back of the seven-headed beast?

I never said it was commonly held. I follow what Jesus said, not the interpretations of later generations. It is easy enough to see how history can be changed by looking at our present day situation. The early church was full of schisms and even as is mentioned by the early church fathers, not all of them were chiliasts.

[gcdonner]

Plus revelation being written after the destruction of the temple.

Apparently I missed that last part... Why would it be thought that revelation was wrote after?

Because of it's mention of the martyrdom of Antipas, which the histories put at 92 AD- 22 years after the temple.

Those are not "histories", they are traditions passed down from one generation to another, and it may be that there were more than one Antipas. As I noted above, even the Orthodox Church in America which holds some sway over Valerie, states that he died in AD68. It is not a certainty, anymore than the being cooked in a huge brazen caldron is.

[Valerie]

Duplicated, but could not delete. I do want to point out it is an error to say everything was "oral "tradition that we learn GC. Do you honestly think that people weren't writing things down? Some of the blessings of finding the Eastern Orthodox Church is their accounts of so many people in the Bible that they give us more information on in the New testament such as the woman at the well and what became of her, what became of Zacchaeus etc. All my Christian life I've heard Protestant pastors interject historical information in the sermons they give. How is it that we know how each of the apostles died? It doesn't go into that in theHholy scriptures with the exception of James-history is a part of "The Church"

I was telling my friend about the Prreterist and they're claim that Christ had already returned. It is her belief that Satan has used this to divide the church and to have us be distracted on what's really important, reaching lost souls. But I did remind her that the church always had to address those that would come in and trouble the church with dogmatic views that they considered heresy and they've done that since the beginning.