Princeton Prof Eddie Glaude - on racial issues

[Bootstrap]

As for Confederate flags, they aren't at all uncommon in PA.

Or Kentucky. Which tried to remain neutral but joined the Union during the Civil War.

There was a room in my dorm at Michigan State that often flew a great big Confederate flag out the window.

[Josh]

This may be a bit of a southerner vs northerner difference. Here in the north, we just don't think about the Civil War very often. Occasionally we drive by someone in, say, Kansas or California who has a Confederate flag in their yard, look at each other, shake our heads, and mutter something about haven't they heard which side won the war.

What is surprising about this is that measures of prejudice often are worse in the north than in the south. I would hazard that the legacy of slavery has a lot less impact today than one might think. Canada has trouble with racism and prejudice too, despite not having a history of slavery.

The thing is, 84% percent of people who are actually black, disagree with you. As for Confederate flags, they aren't at all uncommon in PA.

Confederate flags are socially disgraceful in Ohio (at least where I live).

As a Christian, I think we should avoid national flags altogether, and I also don’t think we should erect statues, particularly of war or political heroes. The world of course will do such things. So I’d say I have a comfortably anti-statue stance, which I feel is consistent with the second commandment.

What if we simply held to such biblical stances? We don’t have flags or statues or icons in Mennonite churches, which is a blessing as we do not ever have to worry about displaying things like Confederate symbols.

[joshuabgood]

This may be a bit of a southerner vs northerner difference. Here in the north, we just don't think about the Civil War very often. Occasionally we drive by someone in, say, Kansas or California who has a Confederate flag in their yard, look at each other, shake our heads, and mutter something about haven't they heard which side won the war.

What is surprising about this is that measures of prejudice often are worse in the north than in the south. I would hazard that the legacy of slavery has a lot less impact today than one might think. Canada has trouble with racism and prejudice too, despite not having a history of slavery.

The thing is, 84% percent of people who are actually black, disagree with you. As for Confederate flags, they aren't at all uncommon in PA.

Confederate flags are socially disgraceful in Ohio (at least where I live).

As a Christian, I think we should avoid national flags altogether, and I also don’t think we should erect statues, particularly of war or political heroes. The world of course will do such things. So I’d say I have a comfortably anti-statue stance, which I feel is consistent with the second commandment.

What if we simply held to such biblical stances? We don’t have flags or statues or icons in Mennonite churches, which is a blessing as we do not ever have to worry about displaying things like Confederate symbols.

Amen to what you wrote, Josh.

[Admiral Acbon]

Who wants to be set free from "being white" as a racial identity?

Since I identify as a Christian before I do anything of a racial nature... not me?

[temporal1]

This may be a bit of a southerner vs northerner difference.
Here in the north, we just don't think about the Civil War very often.

Occasionally we drive by someone in, say, Kansas or California who has a Confederate flag in their yard, look at each other, shake our heads, and mutter something about haven't they heard which side won the war.

What is surprising about this is that measures of prejudice often are worse in the north than in the south. I would hazard that the legacy of slavery has a lot less impact today than one might think.

Canada has trouble with racism and prejudice too, despite not having a history of slavery.

i have not visited this thread before, i noticed AA posted, i read what AA posts.
Josh’s post caught my eye.

It reminds me of my father’s words.
i was probably 10-11. early 1960’s. we rarely traveled, but once drove through some southern states one summer. we in the back seat were “all eyes” for everything we could see.

i was puzzled about seeing Confederate flags.
in my area, public schools were “culturally mixed” before fancy labels were assigned, Josh’s words definitely resonate. we young ones did not think about the Civil War.

so. those flags? why? what?

i asked my father, “what is this about? the war is long over, they lost, move on?”
he thought about my question. my parents did not use many words, ever. his explanation was short, but (i believe) sufficient.

he said, something like, “the north can forget, because the north won.”

in my life, this has been valuable insight to human nature.
it is harder to lose. it is important for winners to be gracious. to be patient. to be tolerant.

in cases of civil wars, not just in the U.S., it’s a matter of many close ones, families and friends, fighting one another. this is extra-painful. so. by way of my father’s insights, i’m not dogmatic about differences in southern-northern views, i accept differences and try to respect them.

i’m not particularly concerned with flags or statues. they exist, they serve purposes.
if there is any flag i’d like to see eliminated, it would be the rainbow flag, which seems to epitomize depravity and pride, a direct affront to God, while not representing any state or country, at all.

i am bothered at the attraction it has for children, not unlike the complaint some had about the camel logo used on cigarettes.

many who loathe the Confederate flag worship, protect, fly, tolerate, the rainbow flag.
i have not petitioned for removal or anything close - of either or any flag or statue, or cigarette ads.

i appreciate the freedom to have my opinions, and realize others have different opinions.
this used to be an important concept taught and valued in public school education. it was commonly accepted.

[temporal1]

i just read this thread’s OP.
i have not viewed the OP link. i plan to.
i plan to read-through the first pages, too. for reference.

meanwhile, yesterday, an internet acquaintance in Ireland posted this meme.
it made me think of posts in this thread about flags+statues, and, HOW BIZARRE SOCIETY seems today, with so many contradictory messages shouted all at once.

Northern Ireland recently voted to support abortion, and ssm. related?
evidently, these “strange bedfellows” cooperate to increase their different political footprints,
and, imho, this seems to serve their political purpose, i.e. (what-have-you) minority interests band together to undermine majority interests.

Oct 2019 / “Northern Ireland to legalise abortion and same-sex marriage”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... x-marriage

Ireland / Northern Ireland:
“The main difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland relates to their political system since they are 2 different countries. Ireland (or Eire) is an independent sovereign state whereas Northern Ireland (also known as Ulster) is part of the United Kingdom, alongside England, Scotland, and Wales.”
https://overinireland.com › ireland-v...
Ireland vs Northern Ireland: What's The Difference? - Over In Ireland

i do not know the origin of this meme, i got it from an acquaintance in IRELAND.
that’s the internet.

[HondurasKeiser]

i just read this thread’s OP.
i have not viewed the OP link. i plan to.
i plan to read-through the first pages, too. for reference.

meanwhile, yesterday, an internet acquaintance in Ireland posted this meme.
it made me think of posts in this thread about flags+statues, and, HOW BIZARRE SOCIETY seems today, with so many contradictory messages shouted all at once.

Northern Ireland recently voted to support abortion, and ssm. related?
evidently, these “strange bedfellows” cooperate to increase their different political footprints,
and, imho, this seems to serve their political purpose, i.e. (what-have-you) minority interests band together to undermine majority interests.

Oct 2019 / “Northern Ireland to legalise abortion and same-sex marriage”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... x-marriage

Ireland / Northern Ireland:
“The main difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland relates to their political system since they are 2 different countries. Ireland (or Eire) is an independent sovereign state whereas Northern Ireland (also known as Ulster) is part of the United Kingdom, alongside England, Scotland, and Wales.”
https://overinireland.com › ireland-v...
Ireland vs Northern Ireland: What's The Difference? - Over In Ireland

i do not know the origin of this meme, i got it from an acquaintance in IRELAND.
that’s the internet.

This is completely off the original topic but the conversation seems to be defunct anyways. I want to clarify though t1; Northern Ireland didn’t vote for either ssm or abortion, rather it was foisted on them by Westminster. Northern Ireland is historically more socially conservative than the rest of the UK and had been allowed to forgo the legalization of gay marriage and abortion simply by not changing the laws to allow it, whilst the rest of the UK forged headlong towards Gomorrah. The legal issue at play is that in July, Westminster (controlled by the Conservative Party) put N.I. on notice that they would finally need to address the issue in their assembly and decide what they wanted to do about those issues and that if the assembly didn’t meet by a certain date in October, the N.I. laws would automatically snap into congruence with the rest of the Kingdom. The assembly government is shared by the pro-Uk and very conservative (anti-abortion/SSM) DUP and the increasingly hyper-progressive/ anti-catholic/ pro-Ireland Sinn Fein. In order to conduct assembly business both parties have to agree to meet and because of increasing hostility from Sinn Fein, the assembly hasn’t met in 3 years. What’s sad is that in being put on notice by Westminster, the DUP tried everything they could think of to reopen the assembly and debate the issue before the deadline set for them by Westminster but Sinn Fein refused to budge as it was in their interest to avoid potentially losing the debate in a reopened assembly and instead achieve their desired policy position by default. It’s a sad day for Northern Ireland and the many Christians that live there.

[temporal1]

HK:
This is completely off the original topic but the conversation seems to be defunct anyways.

I want to clarify though t1;
Northern Ireland didn’t vote for either ssm or abortion, rather it was foisted on them by Westminster.

Northern Ireland is historically more socially conservative than the rest of the UK and had been allowed to forgo the legalization of gay marriage and abortion simply by not changing the laws to allow it, whilst the rest of the UK forged headlong towards Gomorrah.

The legal issue at play is that in July, Westminster (controlled by the Conservative Party) put N.I. on notice that they would finally need to address the issue in their assembly and decide what they wanted to do about those issues and that if the assembly didn’t meet by a certain date in October, the N.I. laws would automatically snap into congruence with the rest of the Kingdom.

The assembly government is shared by the pro-Uk and very conservative (anti-abortion/SSM) DUP and the increasingly hyper-progressive/ anti-catholic/ pro-Ireland Sinn Fein.

In order to conduct assembly business both parties have to agree to meet and because of increasing hostility from Sinn Fein, the assembly hasn’t met in 3 years.

What’s sad is that in being put on notice by Westminster, the DUP tried everything they could think of to reopen the assembly and debate the issue before the deadline set for them by Westminster but Sinn Fein refused to budge as it was in their interest to avoid potentially losing the debate in a reopened assembly and instead achieve their desired policy position by default.

It’s a sad day for Northern Ireland and the many Christians that live there.

Thank you!
Your explanation helps me better understand what i’ve read on this, possibly for 3 years, or so.
Mostly, i’ve read discussions between (some) Irish on this, they know what they are talking about, i am usually at a loss to understand. With your explanation, i see what’s been happening, there is strong disagreement, what i’ve read aligns with your words. i do get their message it’s “A sad day for Northern Ireland and the many Christians that live there.”

It’s so unpleasant to see how people are pushed so hard against their will. It seems unnecessary, yet it’s relentless.

It struck me to see the U.S. Confederate flag used in a meme by some in Ireland.
However, the Irish are “everywhere” in the U.S. i’m sure they are familiar.

i suppose i’ll note this discussion in the Ireland thread:

Page 4 / Meanwhile, in Ireland
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... it=Ireland

HK,
How is it you are familiar with this? Just curious.
t1