Understanding the Culture of Generational Poverty and Dependency

[Josh]

I just think he is speaking from a cultural bubble that has never experienced poverty himself, I wasn't trying to say he was bad at the job, I disagree with how he chooses to share his wealth, but it is his wealth.

The speaker is not a farmer, and I suggest you look into his background a bit more before you claim he is wealthy, doesn’t share what wealth he has, and that he has never experienced poverty himself.

[Soloist]

I just think he is speaking from a cultural bubble that has never experienced poverty himself, I wasn't trying to say he was bad at the job, I disagree with how he chooses to share his wealth, but it is his wealth.

The speaker is not a farmer, and I suggest you look into his background a bit more before you claim he is wealthy, doesn’t share what wealth he has, and that he has never experienced poverty himself.

I'll point out he does share his wealth and I never said he didn't share at all. Secondly, he's a speaker I've never heard of and I know he's the administrator of a school. What I call poverty and what you call poverty might be two different things. I would welcome a direction on where I can look into his background.
The farming reference was about his quote, not about himself being a farmer.

I'll bow out of this conversation, I should of known better then to give my opinion.

[haithabu]

I've ran into this a few times, farmers have no idea how hard it can be to find work that will pay the basic bills today and if for some people, working means you don't get government aid and then cannot make ends meet...
Maybe I came out too strong but I still think that some of what he said was deeply flawed. There were some good points and I really appreciate the way the school works.

I have known farmers who know very well what it's like to work off the farm to pay basic bills the farm operation doesn't cover. One is my brother-in-law. At this time of year his wife is hand weeding their ginseng when she gets home from her day job. Two of my cousins make their own farm ends meet by driving truck.


The idea of culturally rooted poverty is one that is hard to discuss frankly because it smacks of passing judgment but it is impossible not to make certain observations in the privacy of one's mind. My personal hypothesis is that part of the West's economic success lies in the way it is socially organized, and that part of that relates to culturally rooted values. Which suggests that the inverse may be true for some less successful societies.

[Soloist]

The idea of culturally rooted poverty is one that is hard to discuss frankly because it smacks of passing judgment but it is impossible not to make certain observations in the privacy of one's mind.

I would point out the same is true the other way around too.

[haithabu]

The idea of culturally rooted poverty is one that is hard to discuss frankly because it smacks of passing judgment but it is impossible not to make certain observations in the privacy of one's mind.

I would point out the same is true the other way around too.

Yup. Whenever you discuss cultural issues you are unavoidably passing judgment even if it's only by implication.

[Josh]

The idea of culturally rooted poverty is one that is hard to discuss frankly because it smacks of passing judgment but it is impossible not to make certain observations in the privacy of one's mind.

I would point out the same is true the other way around too.

Of course. But when I point out ethnic Anabaptists tend to have a cultural problem with accumulating and pursuing wealth, I never have to deal with being accused of being a racist. Instead, an honest conversation about negative aspects of the culture can take place.

[Wayne in Maine]

I honestly did not find in what he said anything that would help me to understanding the culture of generational poverty and dependency. His idea about European vs. African farming practices just doesn't have legs under it. What I heard was the perspective of someone from a secure stable culture and family in relationship to money. Ethnic Mennonite culture offers far more resources to its members outside of the government than urban American culture. I'm not criticizing him, it's difficult to understand a different culture especially when one' religion is so wrapped up in it.

I like his idea of using a school to educate/acculturate children out of the cycle of poverty and dependency. For adults he offers what is essentially "tough love" (which is sensible) but not a scheme to change the culturally embedded attitudes in individuals that keep them dependent: the change in heart and mind that will make one want to labor.

I like the way he "gives" to those who ask, by making them work for it. It's not something I could do on a day-to-day basis as I take Jesus more literally in relationship to giving and lending to those who ask.

I am curious about the idea that his primary goal "is not to feed them" but to "bring them salvation". Is there a more holistic approach (like the Salvation Army practices perhaps?) What should our "primary goal" be? How does this all relate to making disciples? How does this relate to planting a church?

I wonder if there is a biblical model that is less dependent on "our" Germanic culture of hard work and close extended families. In terms of scriptures, I found a lot of focus on what "they" should do instead of what "we" should do.

The concluding remarks about trying to understand the way "they" think is the critical question. Perhaps the Mennonite farmer accepting subsidies to not grow food can begin to understand the way "they" think if he really tries. We are, most of us, lazy (I'm an engineer, which is a profession of always trying to find a way to do something with the least effort!). Few of us are motivated by the joy of labor for any cause but our own comfort and enrichment. Is that the key to helping people out of dependency, or is there a different attitude toward work and life that we can offer?

[Ernie]

Good perspectives and questions Wayne.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I know the speaker quite well, the church he serves has a strong relationship with ours. I have been to both church and school, and know a number of his teachers.

Generational poverty is also closely linked with general drug addiction, as well as the loss of good union working class jobs in urban areas that pay well enough to support a family. This has reduced the value of (Particularly male) labor, face it a "McJob" really does not pay any more than what one can get through disability, hence the disability rolls have exploded. We have truly gotten to a point where some can reasonably conclude that hard work does not pay. When I was young, the wealthy people in the black community my father's plant was located in were the steelworkers and other skilled factory jobs. Now.....likely the people involved in crime.

Education is truly the only way out. Emphasizing the core skills of success, responsibility , attention to the task at hand and honesty will go a long way. I pray he is able to reproduce this on a larger scale.

The city in which he works has similar problems to my fair city, but on a smaller scale.

J.M.

[Wayne in Maine]

...This has reduced the value of (Particularly male) labor, face it a "McJob" really does not pay any more than what one can get through disability, hence the disability rolls have exploded. We have truly gotten to a point where some can reasonably conclude that hard work does not pay.

That's a point I would like to focus on. Can we motivate others (and ourselves!) economically in the Kingdom of God by some other means than profit and gain?

“Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you."