Understanding the Culture of Generational Poverty and Dependency

[Ernie]

http://www.sermoncloud.com/church-plant ... ependency/

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[Joy]

Interesting ideas. Perhaps the difference between our culture's poor and other countries' is the entitlement attitude that our government handout programs foster. Although, some leaders of Third World nations tend to blame their poverty on other countries' not supporting them. Or not supporting them more.

Anyway, so far as those we try to help right in our city, the generational poor need to turn their lives over to Jesus, and follow His teaching if they want to leave lifelong poverty behind. In our town many years ago, a drunk on the street was witnessed to and (I think) given a tract. His wife says he threw his liquor away and never drank again, becoming a member of the working class and church. As far as I knew, he was still following the Lord when he died.

[Wade]

I think entitlement can be at play a lot here. I think Clayton sounds like he is doing a wonderful work and maybe he has considered what I am going to say, so it is just meant to help perspective whether right or wrong in helping balancing out understanding dependency and/or entitlement.
I know people who are very hard working who have believed they earned what they have. I challenged one such person one time after they said such, that I had heard there is 14 billion hectares of land on earth with 7 billion people. So if we want to be fair each person could be entitled with the use of 2 hectares each. But I've been told that for someone to maintain a North American lifestyle they utilize 8-10 hectares of land to produce what they are consuming with such a lifestyle. So why just because someone works are they entitled to more than there fair share?
I never verified these numbers but I hope it just helps with perspective.
So well a person may be a good productive worker and may not be dependent, it doesn't necessarily help them from falling into the trap of entitlement.

I don't think we can live enough in thankfulness to God for hands, feet, minds, sunshine, rain, and etc. in the ability to even do work. Trusting Him for resources and needs. And being stewards - being plain people.

I have found through personal experience that if I look like I have money people don't feel guilty taking something from me when offered - be it time, money, or whatever. But when I don't have much and they see my other responsibilities people are not quick to accept any of these things.

I'm reminded of Christ watching the widow give of her need while the others gave out of their excess. I think the watching what you are giving out of, is what people stuck in dependency do too.

I'm not promoting non-accumulation or intentional poverty. But I think selling all that we have to buy that pearl means we won't accumulate much because we will be part of The kingdom investing in treasures in heaven. All people need to see that vision and purpose and prayers that they will catch it too.

It is more blessed to give than recieve.

[Soloist]

My impression is that this speaker has some good idea's. I like the way their school system works, with my poverty dependency state I could handle that. I completely disagree with his refusal to loan but appreciate the times he made exceptions. There are several comments he makes that are very racist and I find that dependency is in all people groups.

Good thoughts mixed with a few ones I disagreed with. Overall a bad message because of how he presented the message with downright offensive material. I would say that he's talking from a cultural bubble.

Note from wife: We don't know many black people in this area, but most of the Latinos we know are a lot more hard working than the average white person, and the few illegal ones we know are working even harder because they have no government handouts, and no governmental protection from price gouging with rent. I just think it's never safe to make mass generalizations.

[Josh]

Whilst the speaker does not mince words and isn’t politically correct, I would defer to his judgment of decades spent serving his local community and understanding the differences in each of the unique cultures there. That does include the things he mentioned.

I don’t think he was denigrating a people group or race as a whole - rather, he made accurate observations of what different cultures in his local community value.

I think his perspectives on loans are influenced by that - in some cultures, there is just no idea of any obligation to pay a loan back that’s not to family, unless government forces you to.

[GaryK]

There are several comments he makes that are very racist and I find that dependency is in all people groups

I'm curious about the several comments you felt were very racist. Can you give an example?

He mentioned as well that more whites are dependent on government than blacks.

[Josh]

There are several comments he makes that are very racist and I find that dependency is in all people groups

I'm curious about the several comments you felt were very racist. Can you give an example?

He mentioned as well that more whites are dependent on government than blacks.

Did he mean in absolute numbers or proportionally?

[GaryK]

There are several comments he makes that are very racist and I find that dependency is in all people groups

I'm curious about the several comments you felt were very racist. Can you give an example?

He mentioned as well that more whites are dependent on government than blacks.

Did he mean in absolute numbers or proportionally?

I took it he meant absolute numbers. I would guess that, proportionally, blacks may be higher.

[Soloist]

I suppose "very racist" was a little strong.

The farming connection he made basically saying that these people groups: Latino's and Blacks... could not understand the teaching on saving for the winter ('consider the ant, o sluggard') whereas the Europeans knew how to save for the lean times because they were farmers and most came over for religious reasons.

A few thoughts on that point, one you cannot farm year round in Africa and starvation is quite common there. The crops used are stored and the farming methods used have been used for hundreds of years there. Americans bought slaves and took them to work the farms and then we supplied the needs of the slaves as well to maintain their work as you would an animal. The comparison to those points isn't really the case today. For example, I was in the military and made very good pay but I didn't overly know how to save money. We saved 30 thousand even when we didn't know how to save. Compared to the average person in the military, we were doing very well. The fellow guys I knew were living paycheck to paycheck of all races. Likely none of them were farmers. Many Americans nowadays, regardless of race, cannot grasp the concept of storing food for lean times (or killing their own meat) because Walmart is open year round.

If anything, having free government handouts has taught a person not to plan for the future, but not their ethnic backgrounds.

I just think he is speaking from a cultural bubble that has never experienced poverty himself, I wasn't trying to say he was bad at the job, I disagree with how he chooses to share his wealth, but it is his wealth. I wouldn't disagree with the idea of having beggars work for what you give them, though.

I've ran into this a few times, farmers have no idea how hard it can be to find work that will pay the basic bills today and if for some people, working means you don't get government aid and then cannot make ends meet... the choice is logical. Our education system has issues, gone are the days when you can easily apprentice yourself and learn a trade. Still happens among the Mennonites but you need connections to find things like that. Some of the programs the Mennonites run are limited just to Mennonites and some are Female only. With my own physical limitations (no disability or compensation), it makes it difficult to find work, and it doesn't help when even fast food won't call you back. As far as it goes, the only government aid we get is Medicaid, and we also use a gleaning group where you volunteer at least 6 hours a month and do wood/field gleans. I resisted Medicaid for years before we were faced with heavy medical bills and weren't in any churches able to help us (although to be fair, we didn't ask). My path to get off dependency is at least two years while I go through school. After that, I can use my newfound wealth to be a farmer too.

Maybe I came out too strong but I still think that some of what he said was deeply flawed. There were some good points and I really appreciate the way the school works.

[Wade]

One other comment I would like to make is that one of the reasons I am drawn to Anabaptism is the 500 year culture of generational dependency on God.
Maybe dependency is good and rather we need to cultivate more of it, as long as it is placed in God.
And Christ said blessed are the poor too.