Ms. Izzie wrote:Maybe it's that everything is labeled "Top Down" until you find yourself in the "Top" and then it's time for everybody to practice gelassenheit? Hmmm.... but that wouldn't be gelassenheit would it?
I share your puzzlement.
Growing up in EPMC I would say I witnessed firsthand the uncontrolled obsession to force Ultraconservatism on the lower echelon laity, the push to put out of fellowship those that didn’t follow the status-quo, etc. I get the impression the drive in the Conference before the EPMC was the other direction, a world-ward drift. So I question whether Bro. Chester’s holding out gelassenheit as the ‘happy medium’ means no cliques or groups are trying to promote either extreme?
Is that what pushed Homer Bomberger and others out?
I have noted some differences between how leadership in my conference (KMF) and how the similar (Mid Atlantic) leadership tends to interact with churches. Could some of that be leftover of Mid Atlantic's origins in the EPMC? Or am I just more familiar with my own?
Judas Maccabeus wrote:Is that what pushed Homer Bomberger and others out?
I have noted some differences between how leadership in my conference (KMF) and how the similar (Mid Atlantic) leadership tends to interact with churches. Could some of that be leftover of Mid Atlantic's origins in the EPMC? Or am I just more familiar with my own?
J.M.
Homer Bomberger was not interested in going the direction that Lancaster Conference was going, but neither was he interested in returning to Mennonite life as it was in the 1930's. I think Issac Sensenig saw the 1930's as the Golden Age of the Mennonite Church.
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
Judas Maccabeus wrote:Is that what pushed Homer Bomberger and others out?
I have noted some differences between how leadership in my conference (KMF) and how the similar (Mid Atlantic) leadership tends to interact with churches. Could some of that be leftover of Mid Atlantic's origins in the EPMC? Or am I just more familiar with my own?
J.M.
Homer Bomberger was not interested in going the direction that Lancaster Conference was going, but neither was he interested in returning to Mennonite life as it was in the 1930's. I think Issac Sensenig saw the 1930's as the Golden Age of the Mennonite Church.
If I am not mistaken, Issac had Horning "roots"
Wasn't one of Homer's issues the radio? When Eastern started the radio was tolerated but as I recall shortly after it's formation the radio was "outlawed"
Ms. Izzie wrote:Maybe it's that everything is labeled "Top Down" until you find yourself in the "Top" and then it's time for everybody to practice gelassenheit? Hmmm.... but that wouldn't be gelassenheit would it?
I share your puzzlement.
Growing up in EPMC I would say I witnessed firsthand the uncontrolled obsession to force Ultraconservatism on the lower echelon laity, the push to put out of fellowship those that didn’t follow the status-quo, etc. I get the impression the drive in the Conference before the EPMC was the other direction, a world-ward drift. So I question whether Bro. Chester’s holding out gelassenheit as the ‘happy medium’ means no cliques or groups are trying to promote either extreme?
Is that what pushed Homer Bomberger and others out?
I have noted some differences between how leadership in my conference (KMF) and how the similar (Mid Atlantic) leadership tends to interact with churches. Could some of that be leftover of Mid Atlantic's origins in the EPMC? Or am I just more familiar with my own?
J.M.
In Aaron Shank’s biography written by Chester Weaver, here’s an excerpt of a letter written by Bro. Aaron:
. . . It was only a few years after our [EPMC] church was formed that the White Oak Ministry became seriously dissatisfied with Bro. Homer Bomberger’s bishop administration. As the going became more difficult for Bro. Homer, to the point where he felt like resigning, he and his wife Naomi told me repeatedly that when they are out of the way, judging from what they have heard, I [Aaron Shank] would be the next target for extinction. Bro. Homer resigned from his bishop responsibility in the EPMC about three years after its inception. The bishop board accepted his resignation. Bro. Homer was not dealt with by the bishop board but shortly after his resignation of bishop responsibility a group of brethren appealed to him for leadership. Bro. Homer responded and the Mid-Atlantic Fellowship was thus begun.”
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"Too often believers have trivialized goodness by concentrating on their various denominational brands of legalism, becoming a 'peculiar people' set at odd angles to the world rather than being an attractive light illuminating it." -Unknown
Biblical Anabaptist wrote:Chester's mother grew up in the Washington Franklin Conference (Washington CO). I believe his father grew up in the Lancaster conference which back in the '40s and '50s there would not have been much difference. His parents went with Eastern (one of the most conservative congregations) either when it started or soon after. Chester was with Eastern and moved to Texas to help with the work there. He was there when Pilgrim started and was working for Rod and Staff. The church in TX was in Aaron Shank's district but chose to stay with Eastern. I don't know the details but for some reason, Chester was (as I understand it) kind of pushed out of Eastern and was without a church. R&S said he needed to be a member of a church to continue working for them. He then asked for a 2-year membership at the congregation of which I was a part (in PA). I am ashamed to say we did not accept him as a member on those terms. I believe today he is a member of a Beachy church in IN but lives in TX part of the year. i am not sure about that. As to his age, I am thinking he is somewhere around 70.
I have interacted with Chester quite a bit the last 17 years. The only thing I would add is that when Pilgrim separated from Eastern, there needed to be enough people in a congregation who wanted to be Pilgrim in order for Pilgrim to start a church in that area. There was not enough people who wanted to be Pilgrim at the EPMC church in Scurry, TX.
So Chester went looking for fellowship at Grandview, TX. He was a deacon there until he was silenced for being to open-minded. Half the church left over this and Chester eventually decided to join them at their request. But then the half that left Grandview (Osceloa) started moving left quite rapidly and eventually silenced Chester for being too close-minded. So then he moved to Northern IN and joined a Beachy church. The leaders of that church had a scandal that was not dealt with properly according to Chester and others and so they started a new Beachy church. Then Chester got asked to come back to Osceloa to teach school there. (few churches ask someone to teach school for them that they silenced a few years earlier, so I commend them for being willing to do this.) The church had done a pendulum swing and were ready to have Chester back. Chester was hoping they would swing back far enough that he could join them again but they didn't go as far as he was hoping, so the last I knew he is still a member of the new Beachy church he helped form in Northern, IN but lives in Texas most of the year.
The Cedar Creek Mennonite Fellowship (a break-off of Gray’s Prairie, EPMC) has had Bro Chester Weaver teaching in their Christian Day School and he has preached at least 7 times for them.
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"Too often believers have trivialized goodness by concentrating on their various denominational brands of legalism, becoming a 'peculiar people' set at odd angles to the world rather than being an attractive light illuminating it." -Unknown
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
Judas Maccabeus wrote:Is that what pushed Homer Bomberger and others out?
I have noted some differences between how leadership in my conference (KMF) and how the similar (Mid Atlantic) leadership tends to interact with churches. Could some of that be leftover of Mid Atlantic's origins in the EPMC? Or am I just more familiar with my own?
J.M.
Homer Bomberger was not interested in going the direction that Lancaster Conference was going, but neither was he interested in returning to Mennonite life as it was in the 1930's. I think Issac Sensenig saw the 1930's as the Golden Age of the Mennonite Church.
If I am not mistaken, Issac had Horning "roots"
Wasn't one of Homer's issues the radio? When Eastern started the radio was tolerated but as I recall shortly after it's formation the radio was "outlawed"
I have heard stories about an organ in his home that the other EPMC bishops has an issue with.
"Pushed out", "silenced", "resigned"---sounds like church politics served with a side of religion. It makes me tired.
On a different note.
In the last ten years, I decided to study the history of the Anabaptist faith, after being served my own dish of church politics. That studying is the only reason I haven’t ditched the faith and practice of the Anabaptists. So far it is only what I read in history that makes me think the Anabaptist way is a good way to live. In the present Mennonite practice of faith and in the last 100 years of history there isn’t much that I find compelling. In many of the practices, the shell of obedience is there, but when you get inside, it is often devoid of life and meaning.
Nevertheless, they are my people. I would like to see the “Anabaptist” people have a renewal of faith in Jesus and His teachings. Knowing our history is important, and maybe one of the primary purposes of the knowing is to point us back to Jesus. The early Anabaptists were willing to die for Him; we find it difficult to live for Him. I am becoming convinced that it is pointless to search for a good church or to create a new movement. Change might only come as individuals, wholly committed to their Lord Jesus, serve Him wherever He sends us and that may be in dying churches. I think the early Anabaptists ended up starting a movement not by making the decision to do so, but by being committed to their Lord which made so they were pushed out and attempts were made to destroy them. It is the same now. The institutions have the capability of destroying your life, although they might not take your life. Jesus warned us that persecution would come if we follow Him. We have to make sure though that the persecution is because of us following Jesus and not just us being a general nuisance.
Ernie wrote:
Then why use the word "brotherhood"? Churches with that word in the name make Americans think the church is some "men only" thing that women can't join. Please, no one else start a church with brotherhood in the name. The ones I know of do have a heavy brothers emphasis and not much sisters emphasis.
Do we have to replace the valuable word "brotherhood" with "siblingship" or something like that? The word translated "brother" in many versions of the New Testament refers to a fellow believer, without regard to gender. Therefore I say "most of my brothers are sisters."
Ernie wrote:
Homer Bomberger was not interested in going the direction that Lancaster Conference was going, but neither was he interested in returning to Mennonite life as it was in the 1930's. I think Issac Sensenig saw the 1930's as the Golden Age of the Mennonite Church.
If I am not mistaken, Issac had Horning "roots"
Wasn't one of Homer's issues the radio? When Eastern started the radio was tolerated but as I recall shortly after it's formation the radio was "outlawed"
I have heard stories about an organ in his home that the other EPMC bishops has an issue with.
I have it in very good confidence, from the late Brother Clayton Shenk, that it was indeed the instrument in Homer's house more than anything else that pushed him out.
