the mark of the beast

[Outsider]

contained errors.

What contained errors?

The same post as you see in full above. I changed what I was going to say in the middle of a thought and half the sentence reflected one way of saying something and the other another, so I edited it. For some reason, MN will sometimes duplicate a post when you edit it. And sometimes not. *shrug*

BTW, I don't believe in hidden knowledge. I believe in what Jesus taught.

You take his meaning to be one thing, I take it to be another. I think he spoke of Pentecost, and the coming of the Holy Spirit when he spoke of "this generation" seeing the "kingdom come in power". You take it to mean the second coming.

And you are alleging that the apocalyptic return of Christ has occurred, and no one has noticed, Christian or Heathen. That counts as "hidden knowledge" in my book.

These, then, are the times mentioned by the prophet Isaiah: ‘And the wolf shall lie, down with the lamb,’ etc. (Isa_11:6 ff.).”]

Does that fit your eschatology?

Nope. All I see are "wars, and rumors of wars", pain, suffering, death, and heartbreak.

[Neto]

Jesus plainly said

Mat 24:34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 

Mat_16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mar_9:1  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Luk_9:27  But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Either Jesus was right or he was a false prophet. I suggest he was right, but we have misunderstood what the coming in his kingdom/power was all about. ....

Another angle that may be worth considering:
It is interesting to note that the Gospel of John mentions neither this episode, nor that which follows immediately after in each of the three Gospel accounts cited. That event is the transfiguration. The Gospel writers did not adhere strictly to a chronological order in reporting the sayings of Jesus and other events. But here they all follow the exact same order, and I tend to think that it is noteworthy. In my understanding, they are implying that the transfiguration was an almost immediate fulfillment of this promise. (Eight days later, as I recall.)

[gcdonner]

contained errors.

What contained errors?

The same post as you see in full above. I changed what I was going to say in the middle of a thought and half the sentence reflected one way of saying something and the other another, so I edited it. For some reason, MN will sometimes duplicate a post when you edit it. And sometimes not. *shrug*

BTW, I don't believe in hidden knowledge. I believe in what Jesus taught.

You take his meaning to be one thing, I take it to be another. I think he spoke of Pentecost, and the coming of the Holy Spirit when he spoke of "this generation" seeing the "kingdom come in power". You take it to mean the second coming.
How can you take that passage to mean the day of Pentecost when that is no where spoken of in the whole of Matt 24? Talk about lifting things out of context. So you are saying that the tribulation and all those things happened before Pentecost?

And you are alleging that the apocalyptic return of Christ has occurred, and no one has noticed, Christian or Heathen. That counts as "hidden knowledge" in my book.
You are the one saying no one noticed. Everyone in Jerusalem noticed, and everyone in the whole of the Promised Land noticed the fulfillment of the judgment of the OC system. All of that was tied inexorably together with his second coming. Every eye did see that coming in judgment. There was nothing hidden about it at all.

These, then, are the times mentioned by the prophet Isaiah: ‘And the wolf shall lie, down with the lamb,’ etc. (Isa_11:6 ff.).”]

Does that fit your eschatology?

Nope. All I see are "wars, and rumors of wars", pain, suffering, death, and heartbreak. And where do you find that those things will cease here on earth?

[gcdonner]

Jesus plainly said

Mat 24:34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 

Mat_16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mar_9:1  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Luk_9:27  But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Either Jesus was right or he was a false prophet. I suggest he was right, but we have misunderstood what the coming in his kingdom/power was all about. ....

Another angle that may be worth considering:
It is interesting to note that the Gospel of John mentions neither this episode, nor that which follows immediately after in each of the three Gospel accounts cited. That event is the transfiguration. The Gospel writers did not adhere strictly to a chronological order in reporting the sayings of Jesus and other events. But here they all follow the exact same order, and I tend to think that it is noteworthy. In my understanding, they are implying that the transfiguration was an almost immediate fulfillment of this promise. (Eight days later, as I recall.)

Why would Jesus say that there would be "some" who would not taste of death, if the event was only 6-8 days later. That assumption delegitimizes the veracity of Christ and his predictions. It stands to reason that nearly all, if not all of those listening would still be alive a week later...

Mat 16:27  For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 
28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. 

The statement in question is bound together with the comment on the judgment. Did the judgment of "every man according to his works", happen during the transfiguration?

[Neto]

Jesus plainly said


Either Jesus was right or he was a false prophet. I suggest he was right, but we have misunderstood what the coming in his kingdom/power was all about. ....

Another angle that may be worth considering:
It is interesting to note that the Gospel of John mentions neither this episode, nor that which follows immediately after in each of the three Gospel accounts cited. That event is the transfiguration. The Gospel writers did not adhere strictly to a chronological order in reporting the sayings of Jesus and other events. But here they all follow the exact same order, and I tend to think that it is noteworthy. In my understanding, they are implying that the transfiguration was an almost immediate fulfillment of this promise. (Eight days later, as I recall.)

Why would Jesus say that there would be "some" who would not taste of death, if the event was only 6-8 days later. That assumption delegitimizes the veracity of Christ and his predictions. It stands to reason that nearly all, if not all of those listening would still be alive a week later...

Mat 16:27  For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 
28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. 

The statement in question is bound together with the comment on the judgment. Did the judgment of "every man according to his works", happen during the transfiguration?

I just think it's worth consideration. (I do not agree that this interpretation invalidates the truth of Christ & of his statements regarding coming events, but I do not want to argue about that, either.) Prophecy is full of collapsed events, like the text of the prophet Isaiah which Jesus read in the synagogue in Capernaum, where he quit reading right in the middle, leaving off the part about judgement, and in that way emphasizing the part of his ministry which dealt with that particular time or phase of his ministry.

[Falco Underhill]

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Some suggest that in the transfiguration Jesus was seen in his "royal splendor," and that Jesus was referring to that here, as an assurance that he would return again. The "some" here would then refer to Peter, James and John.

Sounds like a possibility to me.

[Outsider]

The statement in question is bound together with the comment on the judgment. Did the judgment of "every man according to his works", happen during the transfiguration?

We're just chasing each other's tails with this, G.C.- I'm not moving you, and I'm not going to be moved by you (because I do take literally "every eye will see him" ). Hence, I'm not going to engage with you on this topic any longer. You can comment on any posts I make about it, but I'll not reply. You've heard my arguments, and I've heard yours. No point in re-hashing them, and no hard feelings on my part (and I hope none on yours).

You might have better luck convincing me on other things.

[gcdonner]

The statement in question is bound together with the comment on the judgment. Did the judgment of "every man according to his works", happen during the transfiguration?

We're just chasing each other's tails with this, G.C.- I'm not moving you, and I'm not going to be moved by you (because I do take literally "every eye will see him" ). Hence, I'm not going to engage with you on this topic any longer. You can comment on any posts I make about it, but I'll not reply. You've heard my arguments, and I've heard yours. No point in re-hashing them, and no hard feelings on my part (and I hope none on yours).

You might have better luck convincing me on other things.

You insist on one phrase being literal in the midst of many hyperboles and symbolic references, yet don't insist on the same literalness of "there be some standing here..." or "this generation shall no pass til all be fulfilled" Interesting.
No offense taken and no offense intended. Thank you
I'm not sure what "other things" you would wish me to convince you of...