Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

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Neto
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Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by Neto »

I saw a good price on the i3-7100 Intel 7th generation (Kaby Lake) CPU (3.9 GHz), and bought a carton of them, planning to use them on the systems I build, which are based on the Intel B150 chipset. (MSI B150M Pro-VDH) I knew that I would need to update the BIOS while a 6th gen CPU was installed, but even yet the graphics is not running right. (The Windows Experience Index gives it a rating of 1.0....) The 6th gen CPU is running Intel HD Graphics 530, and the 7th gen is running Intel HD Graphics 630. I cannot find any graphics update for this MB except one called On-Board VGA, ver 21.20.16.4541 (2017-02-14), and when I try to run it, it states that the system does not work with it. I was to the point of thinking that maybe this CPU doesn't support integrated graphics, but that would be crazy, and the specs for the CPU list it as above. Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong?
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Neto
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Re: Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by Neto »

I neglected to say that these systems are running Windows 7. That is apparently the key fact.
Windows 10 Users Need Only Apply
Microsoft announced earlier this year that it would not support Kaby Lake and Zen processors with pre-Windows 10 operating systems. The company indicated that it would not update drivers for older operating systems to support the new hardware.
Based on our initial testing, we can confirm that HD Graphics 630 does not function correctly under Windows 7 and 8.1. Both operating systems install generic drivers for the display adapter, even after applying the latest drivers and updates, so many core features remain unavailable. We also experienced stability issues with Windows 7 that might even negate using an add-in GPU as a workaround.
This may be a minor concern to enthusiasts who already keep up to date. But the estimated 47% of worldwide computer users who still use Windows 7 (and the 8% on Windows 8.1) need to account for the cost of Windows 10 as part of a Kaby Lake upgrade. Microsoft allows a limited number of component changes before invalidating your OS license, so it is a valid concern if you plan to upgrade an existing system with a 100-series chipset. It's noteworthy that Microsoft's official mainstream support for Windows 7 expired in January 2015, but the company has obviously not convinced a majority of users to upgrade. Interestingly, Microsoft still offers "mainstream support" for the unpopular Windows 8 until Jan 2018, though that's misleading since it isn't supporting modern processors with the OS.
[Source: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-kab ... 752-2.html]

So it looks like I'll have to hold onto these CPUs until my next system upgrade, when I move to the B250 chipset on Windows 10 (in which I as yet find no redeeming value for the non-internet user).
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by ken_sylvania »

Neto wrote:...Windows 10 (in which I as yet find no redeeming value for the non-internet user).
Good to know I'm not the only stick in the mud around here. :lol: :lol:
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Neto
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Re: Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by Neto »

Since I basically said that it was not possible, I should update my findings, in case anyone else has a need for this.

Both of the following driver packages work. I saw comments on-line about them before I posted my last comments here, but I didn't believe them, since if both Intel & Microsoft say it is not going to work, then what's the average guy posting on the internet know about it?

I should also say that while I did not test this, it is my understanding that if you have a dedicated graphics card, then it takes over, and a person should not have any problems. It is with the integrated graphics that the issue arises.

I had not tried this driver from MSI, because it was a beta test version. But it works, while the final version does not. Crazy, huh?

intel_vga_kbl_w7.zip is the beta version from the MSI site on B150M Pro-VDH, version 21.20.16.4508.

The other is from a non-MSI site. Its full name there is Intel HD & Iris Graphics Drivers Version 21.20.16.4526 WHQL.
SOURCE:
http://www.station-drivers.com/index.ph ... 69&lang=en

Since the latter is a later version number, it might be best, since the MSI one is a beta, but the manufacturer’s own drivers might be best for other reasons.

I tested both, and they render the same results in the Windows Experience Index. (Showing some slight improvements in the graphics ratings over the 6th gen Skylake i3-6100 3.7 GHz CPU. This is, incidentally, the area of the bottom scores for both.)

System description: Windows 7 64-bit SP1 (no internet updates) on MSI B150M Pro-VDH with the i3-7100 3.9 GHz Kaby Lake 7th gen CPU, Seagate 7200 RPM 1 TB HDD, 8 GB Kinston HyperX DDR4 2133 MHz RAM.

Add'n'l Note: You do also need to create a modified Windows installation disk in order to install Win 7 on a 100 series chipset MB. Otherwise, the USB functions disappear after you get out of the BIOS. Also, while no one said anything about this on-line that I saw, in my experience even a PS2 mouse & keyboard will cease to respond, and you simply cannot go on with the installation.
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Neto
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Re: Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by Neto »

ken_sylvania wrote:
Neto wrote:...Windows 10 (in which I as yet find no redeeming value for the non-internet user).
Good to know I'm not the only stick in the mud around here. :lol: :lol:
:wave: Thanks for the moral support!
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lesterb
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Re: Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by lesterb »

Neto wrote: So it looks like I'll have to hold onto these CPUs until my next system upgrade, when I move to the B250 chipset on Windows 10 (in which I as yet find no redeeming value for the non-internet user).
Are you selling any of these? Does that motherboard support DD4 memory?

I'd like to build a new system for myself sometime. My present system is an iBuyPower full size tower, painted fire engine red. I'd like something in a smaller form factor, but still with lots of power. The i3 doesn't come in quad core or with multi threading, does it?

I dream of a KabyLake i7 overclocked to about 4 GHZ, but the price is too much. Maybe a Ryzen...
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Neto
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Re: Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by Neto »

lesterb wrote:
Neto wrote: So it looks like I'll have to hold onto these CPUs until my next system upgrade, when I move to the B250 chipset on Windows 10 (in which I as yet find no redeeming value for the non-internet user).
Are you selling any of these? Does that motherboard support DD4 memory?

I'd like to build a new system for myself sometime. My present system is an iBuyPower full size tower, painted fire engine red. I'd like something in a smaller form factor, but still with lots of power. The i3 doesn't come in quad core or with multi threading, does it?

I dream of a KabyLake i7 overclocked to about 4 GHZ, but the price is too much. Maybe a Ryzen...
I build "word processors" for Amish-owned businesses. I have been working on getting ready to deploy Win 10 systems as I get time over the past year or more. (You can tell that I don't get much extra time.) My next model will be an Intel B250 chipset (almost certainly the MSI B250M Pro-VDH. MSI boards are more solidly built – reinforced – than others I’ve used since Intel dropped out of the Desktop market.), but regardless of whether I get Win 10 ready by then or not, I need to be able to downgrade for customers who want to stick with Win 7. The unfortunate part of this is that I will have to mount a Skylake CPU before I can upgrade the BIOS, at least for my current model, which is running the MSI B150M Pro-VDH MB. MAYBE the B250’s will come with a recent enough BIOS version that this won’t be necessary for those – just thought of that. That would solve a lot of potential problems.

This MB is a Micro-ATX, about 9” square. I’ve been using the Antec NSK3180 case for the locked-down computer systems we also build. (It is a Micro ATX case, a bit smaller than the one I was using previously, until it was discontinued, the Antec NSK4482B. Another really nice case is the MicroATX Antec Minuet350 slimline with a 350 microATX PSU. This one, however, will not take full height expansion cards. I haven’t sold a system using this case yet, but purchased one to evaluate it. It is actually easier to build/work on than the NSK3180, because it has a tray that holds the drives that easily slides out, so you have really open access to the MB. I haven’t looked into any recent Mini-ITX boards, but that would be even smaller. The main thing you loose with those (in general) is that there will only be two RAM slots, and you will be limited to half-height expansion cards, like with the slim-line Micro-ATX one I mentioned above.)
Sorry, got off track. Yes, this MB uses DDR4 RAM. Maximum is either 32 GB or 64 – I don’t recall, as no one has ever asked for a word processor system with more than 16 GB RAM.

Back on the Kaby Lake CPUs – Right now, they seem to be cheaper than their nearest relative in the 6th gen CPUs, about $10.00 less on sale for i3s. (Right now at the vendor that sounds like KNEW Egg.) Like the Kaby Lake i3-7100 (3.9 GHz is going for $109.99, ten dollars less than the i3-6100 Skylake (3.7 GHz). All of the i3 CPUs I’ve been using have hyper-threading, so yes, you get two physical cores, and 2 virtual cores. I don’t know how that compares exactly to the i5s, which have 4 physical cores, and no hyper-threading, but an i5 system I recently built with a 3.3 GHz CPU had slightly better ratings (in the Windows Experience Index – I haven’t done the sort of complicated system tests that computer mags do) than my standard CPU, the i3-6100, which runs at 3.7 GHz. (All i3s are dual core, all i5s are quad core, but none of the i5s have hyper threading. That’s apparently what separates the i5s from the i7s, which DO have hyper-threading.) I did also recently build an i7 locked down computer system for some one with a 4.0 GHz CPU. I just build what I’m asked for…. (I hope someone doesn’t think I’m bragging here – just trying to be helpful, as others have been for me, you included. )
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Josh
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Re: Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by Josh »

You could also deploy Linux to them and run Windows 7 inside a VM. That's the easiest way to deal with running an OS on hardware where the vendor is no longer bothering to support modern hardware (and it offers you a lot of good options to lock things down too).
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Josh
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Re: Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by Josh »

Incidentally there isn't much point to CPUs running at 4GHz or faster until we come up with memory and cache that work that fast. From what I've seen, there isn't a whole lot of progress on that front. I doubt we will be seeing computers getting much faster in the next few years, until some major technological breakthrough happens.
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Re: Graphics - 7th Gen CPU on 100 series Intel chipset

Post by Haystack »

lesterb wrote:The i3 doesn't come in quad core or with multi threading, does it?
The i3 has hyperthreading.
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